There was a “coaching session” provided for the photographers on the morning of the event (but for 15 odd prizewinners who had never used a DSLR before 1 hour is not enough) and the poor fellow only spoke Spanish and a smattering of English. He did try, but the language barriers were too big!

The A850 menu system is very similar to the A700′s but I have set up my A700 so long ago, that I had forgotten some of the settings I use – and I did not have it with me for reference! I never did think about changing the size output to 13 megapixel to save file size! It sounds so logical now! I wish you could have been along to show us all how to get the best out of the cameras!

Thanks also for the tips on the ISO settings. I had no idea that dropping the ISO like that would reduce the noise levels. I did find that ISO1600 with DRO Advanced gave horrible noise even on well exposed shots. So for the most part, I turned DRO off for the match.

Some of the shots of the match used DRO +LVL3 and I must say these were pretty impressive! The DRO is one feature that Sony has that the other makes lack, and it makes a phenomenal difference.

Thanks for the tips – I will give them a try with my A700 – the A850 has to go back to Sony tomorrow unfortunately!

The A850 should have been set to ISO 1250 for low light, 320 when the light was good. Settings 1/3rd stop below each ‘full’ interval produce significantly less noise than 400, 800, 1600 etc (1250 is almost like 800, 320 is like 200, 640 is like 400 etc). DRO+ Advanced should have been set to +3 Manual level, which provides almost the same effect as using fill light or a flash in adverse conditions. Brightness set to +1 and sharpness to -1 would also have improved noise levels and tonal quality, using sRGB Standard colour space.

Finally, the camera would have been best set to Extra Fine JPEG and Medium size output – 13 megapixel, a really good working size for sports shots. That combination gives optimum noise versus detail. Alternatively, you could have enabled APS-C capture – 11 megapixel cropped capture for all shots, turning your 24-70mm f/2.8 into a 36-105mm for practical purposes, with a more manageable file size.

I’m surprised you found the A850 all that different from the A700, I think they are remarkably similar (and all the settings I have listed above will also work on the A700 and produce better images in low light). But it’s a very odd choice of camera for the event, even the A900 would have been better. The focusing issue surprises me too.

David

Thanks for your response, and the quick look over some of my images. I agree – the images are not what I would classify as great, either! The conditions were far from ideal for good sports photography, with the cluttered backgrounds, and the fact that I had been loaned the A850 only 2 days before the event – it is quite different from the A700 that I am used to!

Many of these images were taken up at ISO 1600 with no noise reduction in camera. (All those after half time were in fact at ISO 1600). To make things worse, they were all taken in jpeg Fine only (not Extra fine) as I did not have a large card to capture the images. I also had to process these on the netbook that I had along with me – it is difficult to see what is happening on a 10″ screen whilst on the plane with other people sleeping next to you! (this could explain some of the poorer results in post processing – ??! )

The only PP that was done on these images was to crop gently where needed, resize them and generate the frame for uploading using Faststone. No noise reduction was applied! There were a couple of images where the exposure and brightness was bumped up by 2 stops in Lightroom 1.4 to show the players’ faces at the end of the game, but those were the only images that had exposure compensation applied.

My impressions of the camera were that it would have enjoyed the use of a good flash such as the HVL-F58M to boost the light. There were times when focusing was extremely difficult, especially towards the end of the game, and the medals ceremony, where a fill flash would have sorted all the problems out! I had a flash with me, but the rules were that absolutely NO FLASH was permitted in the bull ring..

From my perspective, the biggest drawback of the whole event was that I had received the loan camera only on Friday afternoon before leaving for Spain on Saturday. Needless to say, I did not have time to try different settings or experiment with the camera’s built in functions, in order to be able to get the optimum settings. I am sure that someone with the A900 would have felt very much at home, and obtained much better results.

I am not a professional, and having been handed a new A850 to use was probably not the best move – I am sure I would have achieved better results with my A700, since I know the camera much better. The plexiglass side panels prevented taking shots from lower to the ground, as there was way too much reflections off that! Going further away into the stands was a no-no because of the lack of focal length – 24-70 does not provide much in the line of a tele lens on a full frame!)

My feelings for the camera were:
- a really nice camera for images where there is not too much movement – I missed many shots because of focus being off, or originally focus lock being turned on before the shutter would fire.
- good potential for a photographer who wants to print very large high detailed images of landscapes etc. A tripod would be great!
- built like the proverbial Sherman tank — solid and with a good reliable feel.

My feelings against the camera were:
- a really heavy piece of machinery – It weighs a ton, and with the CZ24-70 even more! I needed headache tablets afterwards!
- drive speed in continuous of 3 fps is really not on for a camera like this!
- noise at ISO 1600 reminds me of the A100 at ISO 800!
- exposure was not always accurate
- auto white balance could have done much better – there were some very odd looking images!
- the grip – there is a joint on the front of the camera between the grip and the lens mount. For my fingers, this ended up right in the middle where my fingers pressed up against the body and it became an irritation after just a short while! The A700 does not have that joint…!
- file sizes! Whilst storage is generally cheap enough, the time it takes to download or process files of the size that this camera produces remind me of 10 years ago! I guess that comes with the full frame sensor, but when an Extra Fine jpeg checks in at close to 20Mb and a Fine jpeg at 10Mb, processing requires a pretty powerful machine!

I hope that Sony did not count on there being fantastically artistic images taken – perhaps they will be able to find 5 or 10 images from the 1000′s that were shot to make it worthwhile!

Thanks for taking the time to look over my images…..

If you want to do difficult situations, you could, similar to what David suggested, is just open it up to a larger group of people and a “low-light” contest, of whatever subject. I think the A500, for example, is definitely capable of making use of high-ISO while maintaining decent quality, from the samples I’ve seen, but I agree with David that the subject matter here is rather limited.

I looked at only a few photos in that link, and I dunno. Would be good to know what camera(s) that was, as it didn’t seem an improvement over what I have (P&S or SLR). Maybe the photographer forgot about the new twilight mode?

There are two or three passable pix from warm-up (African player heading ball) and a couple of nice shots which have nothing to do with the game (bullring rim and sunset, flag and sky). Sorry, but the pix are not wonderful either in terms of football photography, or twilight photography. The technical quality shows the Sony equipment up badly and that is the most worrying thing. Users of two other systems (Nikon and Canon) are going to look at the results and laugh – not your material, Sony’s picked selection, I am not singling you out and thanks for posting your link.

I’m sorry – I do not want to be negative, but the gap is so great between this and really successful photographic outcomes that I can’t even begin to describe the difference. Nor do I think I would have done much better. The setting is awful, there are people with cameras littering the background, glass panels in the way, there is nothing beautiful or surprising or wonderful – nothing to make any viewer look twice and think they must have a Sony camera. If I did not know where any of these pix were from and they were submitted to a contest, or as a batch for magazine consideration, they wouldn’t get past first look. Take a look at Flickr or iStockphoto and see the standards of real photography, from amateurs, and you’ll understand why.

Sony appears to have made a statement that Sony products can take really pretty poor shots in what is actually not very low light.

It would be difficult for me to feel ‘sour grapes’ about Sony – my feelings are much stronger than that!

David

Perhaps they got carried away with the hype of Twilight, and they are not totally accurate as to the scientific definitions – it does not matter. They have engaged with their future market, and have made a statement – Sony products can take great low-light shots! They have the technology to be able to deliver, and they seem to have got it right.

Have a quick look at the gallery here, and let me know if there are no good images that come from Sony….
http://www.afripixel.com/image/tid/36

These are some that I took, in Antequerra, Spain, in the bull ring at the Sony Twilight Football event. Please do criticise – I am by no means a pro like yourself, but I think there might be some passable images there……

David

David

I agree with that assessment Dave, I think the company that does the best at highlighting their product is Pentax, I shoot Sony but when I look at their site I start to think man maybe I should get a Pentax and that is what Sony needs to do is make you want their camera for what you can do with it not what someone else can.

See Ya
Zoom

David: check @techmama and @sonymom: those are soccer moms and Sony are targeting A330/A380 to them. This event is for the A550, that represent the new approach for low light and noise treatment we will see in the next Alpha generation.