Pentax K-r + 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 SMC DA AL - Black

[Greg Beetham]

Great post David, I feel a little more 'warm' towards Sony now, not a huge amount but it's a start. Btw I was looking at my original KM lens packaging/boxes to see if any had point of origin info on them, but nothing definite that I could see except 'printed in Japan' here and there....I must have cut it very fine indeed on the 100-300APO, the warranty card is dated 30-01-2006, is that sailing close to the wind or what?
Greg

ps. If the A100 was an intended KM model (actually in use as a production model before KM shut the doors) I wonder what model number it would have ended up with had KM released it?

pps. I think that's it Barry, mainly, Sony makes one sortof nervous, by manner of operation, but I have too admit they have come far (and inflicted needless stress on innocent bystanders in the process) when you read DK's post.

[bfitzgerald]

They have come far yet never seem to go far enough
Some might be blown away with the A33/55 and that's enough to signal Sony are doing a great job. It's encouraging in that respect..but they continue to worry me with their direction at times.

Frankly I don't care how well Sony do market share wise for the video wannabe shooter...I simply care about products that meet my needs. The best thing Sony could do to re-assure users is release a FW update allowing the lens release lock on/off in all previous bodies, maybe including a new jpeg engine that allows the user to set NR to off, low, med, high. But they won't..they bash products out and don't support them, that's the other critical point I didn't make in my post. Long running issues and not even a single attempt to address them.

Sony give the impression (and it does them no good at all) of not paying attention to users, or fixing areas that need work. All the A560/580 did was re-instate "some" basic bits we had over 5 years ago. Not really much to celebrate, their only strength is mid point now and less so for traditional DSLR users. I don't want to be negative all the time but frankly why should users have to waste their time pointing stuff out like this? DK's is obvious more optimistic on things..for good reason. I said a few years back Sony would move away from Minolta thinking wise, and they have even faster than I expected. Maybe good for sales, probably less so for those interested in photography

[Greg Beetham]

Yes that's exactly what I want too, for Sony to maintain a core (however limited in model range) of thoroughly traditional DSLR's, just a 5 and 7 would do, no gimmicks or frills, no video or LV if it's going to impact anything important like the OVF. Then they can do whatever they like with the other stuff, like the new semi transparent mirror jobs, DSLR's with video if they want, don't care, but the core traditional couple of models should always be there.
Greg

[alphaomega]

I started this thread by inviting Barry Fitzgerald to now "jump ship" because it would seem to me that Pentax had just released a camera to his liking, but no, it was £100 too expensive. Barry Fitzgerald has only ever owned one Sony, namely the A200 as I understand it. I went from MD direct to Alpha through the R1. I left the A100 for other people to purchase due to sub AF and excessive shutter noise (so it was claimed by reviewers) but purchased the A700 with CZ16-80 lens. This was followed by A350 and then another A700 and another A350 and now the A550. My wife has the first A350 and my son the first A700. They are both happy and I am impressed by the quality I am getting. There are shortcomings right enough. Most highlighed by Mr Fitzgerald a hundred times at least, but the cameras work and generallly produce good pictures. I think we have only seen the beginning. I have much more actual experience of using Sony DSLRs than some other contributors here and they are not bad at all. I can understand some peoples' frustrations over having some functions removed but I guess Sony are also going through a learning curve. Thanks David for providing an overview of developments from Minolta through KM to Sony. Give Sony a break and time to learn from their mistakes.

[bfitzgerald]

Just to clarify I didn't buy the A200 is was a gift
But I did recommend some folks that I know to get one on the basis it was a decent entry DSLR and a very good price at the time. I did buy a Sony flashgun so it would not be unfair to say they have got some cash off of me. But I'll admit I am not a huge source of revenue for Sony and their Alpha division.

But that's mostly down to not really warming to their subsequent products very much, maybe I'm a bit fussy I can concede that. I might well look at the K-r but as said I've never bought any cameras just after release I always wait for the inevitable price drop. There are weak points there for "some users" video isn't as beefy as the new Sony's, maybe Pentax could have been a bit more adventurous..on the whole it looks more like a photographers camera and that's no bad thing really.

[tom power 53]

David you are exactly right. Sony is making astounding progress in a highly competitive and specialized industry.

Certainly mistakes made but their progress is nothing short of phenomenal.

It is clear they are trying to build tomorrows cameras and it appears to me that Canikon needs to get it in gear or they will be seriously challenged and soon. Not in the pro arena for now but the Sony user base is building rapidly and Pros from that base will follow in the years ahead.

I really think it is going to be very difficult for the Oly/Pentax second tier players as the R&D/production expenses with a smaller volume might break them in the long run.

JMO

[pakodominguez]

Barry, Minolta did not buy Konica, other way round.

It is hard to understand how you, Barry, one of the top posters at DPR (before you leave that forum) didn't knew where we came from -but I'm not surprised.

The A100 is a Minolta camera: just look the interaction between both control wheels: same principals as the Dimage 7/A series.

Photokina and PDN (PhotoPlus Expo) will show us more. I would love to see the SAM 85 f2.8 and what else they present. Do you think, David, they will announce the A7xx now? I think they'll do it by PMA...

regards

[David Kilpatrick]

I think it will be at photokina. It was already previewed at the last PMA.

David

[KevinBarrett]

If the a7xx doesn't get here quick and check all my boxes, I just might succumb to the K-5's siren song to accompany my next lens purchase.

[pakodominguez]

If the a7xx doesn't get here quick and check all my boxes, I just might succumb to the K-5's siren song to accompany my next lens purchase.

yeah, right...

[KevinBarrett]

Okay, you're right, the money isn't burning a hole in my pocket. However, my a700 isn't getting any younger, and Sony's just made me pretty nervous lately. My next camera has to offer me an improved viewfinder over the a700, and not give up anything on the flash sync speeds--the K-5 seems to be that camera, and I've loved using my brother's K20 in the past. What's more, with Pentax I can actually get a weatherproof lens to go with a weatherproof body.

[Greg Beetham]

I've never owned a Pentax, but I've always had the impression that the Pentax was a slightly more 'open' system than others. Problem that Pentax has is their only aternative to FF is the expensive 30MP 645D, if you need a studio or commercial type camera that is. What annoys with most brands is they went more and more proprietary and restrictive too using third party alternative of this or that (lenses, flashes and accessory items), sometimes painting themselves into a corner in the process...not producing or having the item required themselves.
Take the flashes on offer, they only have functionality when used with a parent brand camera. Why didn't they keep the off camera Manual control with onboard exposure sensor and a full range of fractional settings? all they needed to do was an ability to switch it over from WL to local Manual control and have an inbuilt radio slave trigger with an accessory radio sender for the hotshoe, not that hard in this day and age surely.
It's a similar story with Lenses, the object is more and more proprietary over time.
It's a peculair paradox that as systems got more and more complex they also seemed to get less and less flexible and useful....very strange, one would think it would be the opposite.
Greg

[pakodominguez]

Okay, you're right, the money isn't burning a hole in my pocket. However, my a700 isn't getting any younger, and Sony's just made me pretty nervous lately. My next camera has to offer me ...

Kevin,

I think that, even if you investment in the Alpha system is not that important, you already reach a degree of commitment that won't allow to switch to a different system -unless something special happens, like you becoming a professional photographer, push you to do so.

Before I switch to Minolta digital I was working with Nikon for more than 10 years, but I did so because a) I only could afford a 70D and after renting it a couple of times, I just didn't like it, the menu system and the output, and b) I lost the best of my Nikon lenses and cameras after a unhappy incident (I bought a XPan system with the money I got from the insurance) and I had to invest almost from scratch, so why not buying into something that I did liked (I was using a Dimage 7Hi at that time and I was happy with it)

I kinda like the Pentax approach, nice bodies with valuable features, their output (colors are pleasant) but I think they have the same certitude in the future than Minolta (hey, we were lucky "we" got absorbed by Sony). If I'll going for a "small" company, I'll be buying into Nikon.

Regards

[bfitzgerald]

Barry, Minolta did not buy Konica, other way round.

It is hard to understand how you, Barry, one of the top posters at DPR (before you leave that forum) didn't knew where we came from -but I'm not surprised.

The A100 is a Minolta camera: just look the interaction between both control wheels: same principals as the Dimage 7/A series.
regards

A merger is a joining of two companies together, it's a simple as that.
I can't speak for you but I came from my parents
The A100 probably was a Minolta design but it was never really going to bag a huge number of 5d users, esp low light ones.
It's unfortunate that Sony moved away from those designs as they were IMO better than later bodies in the same class.

I sometimes make mistakes, even DK does at times too

I find Pentax more "Minolta ish" than Sony right now I think Nikon is also a natural place for Minolta shooters to look as well. I respect Canon but they have never really appealed to me much. Olympus seems more and more likely to stick to micro 4/3 at the expense of a traditional DSLR system. The heart of the problem for me is the main man Toru..I've winced more than a few times with his interviews on youtube, he does not understand the needs of photographers either in handling of features. (or macro ring flashes lol) He is overly obsessed with keeping things "Sony like" and over simplified.

Even from day one with my first real 35mm camera, I really loved having a lot of settings, being able to customise a camera to my own needs. So myself and Sony see things very differently on this. I do not want simple and basic..not at all.