I just had to get an A55

[David Kilpatrick]

Corrected the two OVF for EVFs. Of course a rear LCD screen can do the same, but in my instance, it would be pretty much impossible. I have found it very difficult indeed to follow action or compose with long teles (such at 1000mm) using a rear screen - even with a 250mm lens attached, I have missed shots because the action of aiming a camera held in my case about one foot in front of my eyes is not intuitive. Same goes for video, rear LCDs work pretty well with wide angle view and are OK if you zoom in during a shot to a long tele view, but actually composing from scratch at the tele end is not so hot.

A much more important aspect for me is that I can't actually do any critical focusing on the rear screen. The one foot distance gives me a sharp image with my right eye, but I can not focus any closer, and my left eye is focused on around three feet at the closest. That's without specs. If I use my normal outdoor specs, I can not really focus any closer than 1 metre overall in dim light. I can see well enough to compose, but have to trust AF.

The EVF has a particularly wide-ranging dioptre control and provides me with a perfectly sharp view, whether wearing specs or not (just re-adjust the dioptre). The difference in shortsightedness between my left and right eye does not matter because I am only using one eye, unlike the situation with the rear screen. I do not really want to add a focusing hood attachment to the rear screen, part of the appeal of both the NEX and the A55 is the lightness and small size.

In the studio, I can wear reading specs or use a magnifier on the rear screen so I am more likely to use it, as the camera is on a tripod and this works OK.

But I think there's no denying a camera with both a rear LCD and EVF is a complete instrument, where one with just a rear screen is a compromise. I don't think I would buy an add-on EVF for the NEX, as for me the compromise is worth it for the slim, light camera and I use the 16mm lens 95% of the time (focus is not a concern as long as I can see it is confirmed).

I appreciate that argument against the A55 are really not criticising this camera, which is a great extra choice to have, but the possible outcome of its success which may be EVF-SLT A77 or whatever. That's a different issue.

David

[Dr. Harout]

Frankly, I am waiting the a77 (or whatever it will be named).

[bfitzgerald]

But I think there's no denying a camera with both a rear LCD and EVF is a complete instrument, where one with just a rear screen is a compromise. I don't think I would buy an add-on EVF for the NEX, as for me the compromise is worth it for the slim, light camera and I use the 16mm lens 95% of the time (focus is not a concern as long as I can see it is confirmed).

David

Of course if you have a camera that just has a back LCD that is a limitation. On the other hand we're getting carried away with EVF lust some obvious advantages of course (nobody would deny) but no disadvantages? I think that's the key point.

Yes longer focal lengths will be a problem and make a rear LCD unsuitable but then you've got 2 completely different choices an optical view and an electronic one, with an EVF and LCD you have only one choice just 2 ways to use it.

I also read that the A77 won't have a choice to flip the mirror up and shoot that could be something that bothers some users. If we look back to Sony's fast AF live view it was in itself a flawed approach yes you get very fast AF but it was no good for fine focusing and not accurate enough for exposure and WB not v a main sensor live view. That showed some nice ideas but it was a flawed approach in some respects it also gave us quite awful viewfinders (A350) not as bad but far from great with the newer ones.

Even as a die hard OVF user I would not object to some kind of hybrid OVF/EVF viewfinder maybe not easy to do but not impossible. I do fear a future without optical viewfinders so I think this has the potential to be a controversial move.

[Greg Beetham]

The main issues I see with EVF's (from my perspective), is the lagtime behind reality, or latency, whatever you want to call it, the extra battery consumption, (to some it doesn't matter, but too me it does), and the fact you can't use the telephoto lens as a spotting scope on the camera for looking at things, framing, composing etc. without turning the camera on. Those issues don't exist with an OVF.
Greg

[agorabasta]

The SLT mirror is made of plastic, so flipping it up&down fast would eventually deform it. Had it been made of glass, it would be too fragile to flip.
Then the SLT mirror is considerably larger than a normal SLR mirror, and flipping it would require a huge mirror box and/or a more sophisticated mechanism.

So the only practical design allowing the mirror to move out of the lightpath is to have it slide flat to one side (e.g. grip side). And I don't mean jerking it aside for every shot, just slide it to change to mirrorless CDAF mode.
I really wish they did it so...

[Greg Beetham]

I always thought that it would be possible to flip it up (not instantly like a regular SLR mirror, but with a much more gentle action) and just use main sensor LV in those odd circumstances with MF. If you wanted to move it to one side there would most likely be extra complications, the rectangular shape of the sensor and SSS mechanism is already horizontal so that means the mirror would have to have extra room at the front of the mount at one side, also there would be a rotation of the mirror to 90 degrees from where it normally is. With just moving it up the EVF housing might only have to be raised a little for the mirror to go up and slide back a bit.
Greg

[agorabasta]

A flat parallel slide toward the grip through some slot on the side of the chamber involves to rotations. That's really the simplest solution. No problems with the mount. They'd only lose some depth of grip or simply make the cam thicker on the grip side.

[Dr. Harout]

A flat parallel slide toward the grip through some slot on the side of the chamber involves to rotations. That's really the simplest solution. No problems with the mount. They'd only lose some depth of grip or simply make the cam thicker on the grip side.

... and include a very flat battery?

[agorabasta]

A flat parallel slide toward the grip through some slot on the side of the chamber involves to rotations. That's really the simplest solution. No problems with the mount. They'd only lose some depth of grip or simply make the cam thicker on the grip side.

... and include a very flat battery?

Not at all. Just take a closer look at some larger body, like a700, and you may realise that there's more than enough space; all that's needed is a slight recomposition of body elements.

P.S. And btw, making the body slightly thicker would also be a wise thing to do anyway - that EVF sticks out too far on an a55/33...

[bfitzgerald]

I think it would be fairly easy to allow the mirror to be flipped up but if the information is correct then that won't be an option. That could be a serious mistake in a market that's much more fussy than lower priced models. Sony seem obsessed with consumerism and yet today we get Canon the most successful company out there updating yes traditional DSLR models.

Sony are missing a trick, it's not about SLT or even OVF or EVF it's about making competitive products in the market place

[alphaomega]

I think it would be fairly easy to allow the mirror to be flipped up but if the information is correct then that won't be an option. That could be a serious mistake in a market that's much more fussy than lower priced models. Sony seem obsessed with consumerism and yet today we get Canon the most successful company out there updating yes traditional DSLR models.

Sony are missing a trick, it's not about SLT or even OVF or EVF it's about making competitive products in the market place

Barry, you are entirely entitled to your personal opinions and requirements, but I think it is too early to pass judgement. Sony did try to compete against CAN/NIK "playing to their rules, the DSLR". They failed as did Samsung and to a certain degree Pentax (small market share for basically good DSLRs). Sony have started a new playing field (NEX and SLT) and their sales have improved. There is a long way to go before we know if this has been a good long term strategy. As is known from the military field you can win all the battles and lose the war (Vietnam) or win all the initial battles and lose the war (WW2 and US civil war). Sony can still prevail but it may take 2-3 years. You can go on and press your points, but if Sony increase sales and profits on the back of NEX and SLT products they will be less and less likely to listen to your kind of arguments. I think it is well established that it is almost impossible to beat CAN/NIK at their own game, so why continue if product developments allow to circumvent the current market leaders? Google did not come to prominence by imitating Microsoft. They went round them and exploited the internet forcing Mr Gates to preform a complete turnaround to become the chaser rather than chased. We are at the beginning of an interesting battle between giants. I doubt if anyone can predict the outcome with any certainty.

[bfitzgerald]

I won't disagree with many of your points yes it's too early to predict but there is no question Sony are chasing a different type of customer one who values video more than many stills shooters might do.

I've never really felt the gave it their "best shot" either though maybe the A580 is a bit closer to that than previous models but still falls somewhat short. They pretty much gave up budget entry level wise (serious mistake IMO) they failed to interest the market with the one trick pony A550 and A500 models which just didn't cut it in the market at the time and they left the A700 to die never updating it.

That in all honesty is not trying very hard bit like me taking a grap shot and calling it a serious attempt at a portrait you have to do something called "put a bit of effort in" so we're back to the same point I portray Sony are after non fussy consumers much more than they are enthusiast photographers you can dress it up however you want to..that's their most obvious mistake and it sticks out more than a head shot with a telegraph pole sticking out from it!

[bakubo]

P.S. And btw, making the body slightly thicker would also be a wise thing to do anyway - that EVF sticks out too far on an a55/33...

That is one of the things I really like about the A55. Makes shooting with your left eye much better than a DSLR. My old Minolta D7i also had the EVF eyepiece stick out from the back and I loved it.

[agorabasta]

Henry, have you tried that EVF against your eye for a long enough period?

To me the eyepiece cushion feels too small and far too hard. They surely could make it larger/softer if the EVF didn't stick out that much.

[bfitzgerald]

Unfortunately the LCD sticks out on the A550 and even A580 it's an annoyance for users and a real turn off 2011 and yet they can't make a more flush fitting swivel LCD (note Canon 600d less protrusion much more like it)