DSLR wars...

[bakubo]

Why perpetuate the digital adjective with regards to naming future camera types? Seems like it is ripe to be dropped.

Also, as far as disruption is concerned, it may not even be an existing big corporation that does it. It may be a future Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. startup that at the moment is just one or two people sitting in a garage or in a dorm room or linking up from far away over the web somewhere dreaming that does it. Or, it might be Crocs.

[Greg Beetham]

Well last I heard, sensor fabs cost around a billion yen to build, (in Japan's case they'll probably have to re-build one or two) and then there is the GPU...processor fabs cost about the same, so I don't think it'll be any shoestring operation that brings new technology to fruition, it'll have to have the clout of a big corporation to do the r&d, build the infrastructure etc. unless someone can dream up an idea on 'paper' worth pursuing by the biggies that is; it would be good if someone could invent zero resistance at room temperature, that would be something they would all pay lots of money for.
Greg

[bakubo]

Well last I heard, sensor fabs cost around a billion yen to build, (in Japan's case they'll probably have to re-build one or two) and then there is the GPU...processor fabs cost about the same, so I don't think it'll be any shoestring operation that brings new technology to fruition, it'll have to have the clout of a big corporation to do the r&d, build the infrastructure etc. unless someone can dream up an idea on 'paper' worth pursuing by the biggies that is; it would be good if someone could invent zero resistance at room temperature, that would be something they would all pay lots of money for.

Famous last words...

[DrScottNicol]

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/364270/liqu ... al-cameras

This technology uses nanoparticles and almost certainly WON'T scale easily to full size lenses - nevertheless its a start.

Also, can you imagine the FAQ article on Sony's Support for a future camera using a liquid lens?
'Use of the camera in warm climates or using video capture functions for more than 5 minutes may result in the camera sensor-over heating or total lens evaporation - this is normal'.

[Greg Beetham]

With that technology you could build the coolest macro system ever...maybe.
But the thought occurred; how much magnetism are they talking about needing in a normal sized camera? Also how does one clean the dust off or out of a liquid lens? And what happens to the lens when the power is turned off, or are they using rare earth magnets? And how would the elements be held in place in a lens barrel? High voltage power lines can generate a magnetic field, even the house supply can as well, would those liquid lenses that rely on magnetic fields be practical in places where other magnetic fields are encountered?
Greg

[DrScottNicol]

In the spirit of this thread, I spotted this over on Sony Alpha Rumours :

'Sony patents liquid lens'
the link below takes you to a Google translated version of the original article they picked up on..

http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... 2011-04-29

which links into a separate article with an animated gif - an artists impression of how it might work as it were

http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... 2011-04-29

[bfitzgerald]

Interesting to talk about Apple they are a very curious company indeed having followed them for quite a long time since the early 80's in fact with fond memories of playing with early Apple computers.
Apple have a unique ability to make products that people desire, find trendy and are willing to pay premium prices for.

The problem comes when you actually consider if their products are "great" or merely "not that good" An Ipod is a passable enough music player but it's not "top league" audio quality wise not even close. Apple have some serious problems with being even vaguely practical find the Apple product that let's the user change batteries this is a ghastly oversight for some folks.

Macs are simply overpriced PC's (same hardware in fact less choices) packaged in nice cases running a good OS. Cruel but true ask any PC builder and few will ever say a good thing about Apple. But..I admire their ability to sell products and make them desirable even if I don't think much of them at times.

Leaving that to one side (sure to upset Mac fans if so I'll price build a pc for significantly less and better quality hardware

Sony will never be able to remove either Canon or Nikon from their 1 and 2 spot positions so the company will simply have to make do with "3" this doesn't really matter anyway it never was about market position. But I will just say this the folks on this forum seriously underestimate the brand appeal and entrenchment of those 2 makers it does not matter if the A77 is the best camera ever made, Canon and Nikon will sell more and without even trying.

I know people who can't even tell me why they bought a Canon it was just a "natural obvious choice" they probably won't really care about SLT or anything else Sony throw into the ring. With the FF models it's looks as if Sony are doing an "A700" there with talk of models discontinued and nothing new on the horizon. This lack of consistency will prevent Sony from being any kind of serious force for high end users.

[Birma]

Hi Barry - you've been quiet for a while . It must be new camera release season! I'm sure you're right about the Canon and Nikon brands in the UK. I'm not so sure on other markets, e.g. China, where that heritage doesn't exist, of is much less, for Canikon. I suspect that the Sony badge on a camera means more there than here. Anyway, if being #3 makes Sony try harder by innovating then hooray for us consumers.

Macs are simply overpriced PC's (same hardware in fact less choices) packaged in nice cases running a good OS. Cruel but true ask any PC builder and few will ever say a good thing about Apple. But..I admire their ability to sell products and make them desirable even if I don't think much of them at times.

I think that is rather the point - I suspect many people by Apple (or Sony or HP, ...) because they never expect to replace a component or open the case - computers are 'white' goods now - you just buy them to work. They'll last a few years, and then you'll buy a new one. My next desktop will be a Mac (after owning PCs since the 486 clones were <£1000). The apple phones have converted me. It just works. That is worth the price for me - I no longer have the time to sweat over driver compatability or making network compenents talk to one another.

[bfitzgerald]

Birma you have to remember I'm quite biased as I've built computers for some time now so I know exactly what the situation is! I'm not knocking Apple for a very effective global pr/marketing job they really have made Apple an outstandingly popular brand with serious pull.

With a PC it's a PC if it's a Mac or any other computer so don't anyone assume I'm waving a flag for Microsoft here either they've their own share of good and bad points too. Bluntly put open up a Mac any one you care too and they use a selection of vendors for boards, memory, hard drives etc etc just like any other pc maker out there. PC builders don't like Mac not because of the OS which most do like but when you DIY a pc you pick what you want not the company with Apple you've actually got quite a bit less choice wise than you do normal vendors. Looking at component cost it's a very significant premium for an Apple Pc v what you would pay to buy the parts yourself.

If Apple ever did enter the camera market (in whatever shape or form) they would be an instant hit no questions asked 100% guaranteed to sell tons of units. Apple know how to make something sexy, cool dare I say hip and make a product leap out from being just a consumer item to something people desire. I'm not seeing hints of this with Sony they have had great moments in the past that is beyond doubt. If I might be so brave as to say just this there are too many companies involved in the camera business too many products and the market really is fiercely competitive. I've my money right now on Canon doing a G type ILC series of cameras and I'd go so far as to say it will undoubtedly be a huge hit and it will start to take away market share from the other makers.

Canon are too big a company to be dismissed and it's extremely unlikely they are sleeping on this one. Nikon I have less confidence in because they're not a serious player compacts wise, but even they shift quite a few units esp USA wise based on name alone.

[David Kilpatrick]

The real problem with Apple, as we are finding, is that too many Macs simply can't even be fitted with a graphics card capable of driving something like an Eizo ColorEdge monitor well enough to use its bit depth. You get a fixed table d'hote menu as Barry says. Even so, I would not swap; there are real productivity/connectivity issues which affect using a PC the way I use a Mac, so I'll stick with the machine that enables me to scatter a dozen windows from entirely different programs all over a large screen and swap data between them effortlessly, as if they were all just part of one program.

David

[Greg Beetham]

Since Apple have now become another Intel customer and dropped the RISC processor with the UNIX based OS (I guess it was not cost effective to keep building new processor fabs) there is really no compelling reason to buy Apple computers anymore as the hardware is no different performance wise to a regular PC, (the main difference from a user standpoint is what flavour of OS you like), also replacement internals are OEM-ised like HP and IBM used to do; you more or less have to get the OEM replacement part, you can’t just go down to the computer store and grab a new power supply and put it in etc. Even putting in a new/different graphics card you could be treading on thin ice getting full compatibility hardware/software wise.
I see the new large screens need a much larger bandwidth from the graphics card so you need one that has a so called ‘dual link’ DVI display port, some cards have both a standard DVI port and a ‘dual link’ DVI port and to confuse us even more some have dual ‘dual link’ DVI ports, have a look here http://www.ubergizmo.com/2006/02/dell-3 ... or-review/
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Good point Greg with IBM they had a unique processor which was at least different from what was going on PC wise. Not that I'm saying the move to Intel was a mistake but it at least was different.

At the moment Intel are doing well but if AMD blow socks off with their new CPU range (and they just might) the lack of choice here might be a factor later on. The other issue is that Apple are sometimes slow to update their range they're still using the Core 2 duo for the Mac Mini where as laptop vendors switched to i-3's quite some time ago, granted the speed improvement is modest with the new processors but it's a valid point.

The i-mac range is popular but the top model 27-inch iMac has a hefty price tag of £1650 that's quite a lot and you get erm a basic 4Gb of ram and an i-5 CPU at 3.1GHz. I'm not into build in pc's myself because if something goes wrong with your monitor...

The other point is price gouging and badly at that configure your i-Mac here:
http://store.apple.com/uk/configure/MC8 ... jIwNTQ0Njk

You pay £160 to move from 4 to 8Gb ram yet buy 8Gb yourself and it would cost half of that price. For the price of that Mac I could build a stunning pc with excellent quality components and a good 27" display and have a lot of cash left over.

[Greg Beetham]

Yep Barry I agree, some are used to the Apple OS interface and how to be productive in it so that's a compelling reason to stay with what you know, I don't know if they chop and change things around like Microsoft do every time they release a new version, that is one thing I find annoying with Windows. My next computer will have to be 64bit I think, as 32bit system days are numbered, they can only work dynamically with a bit less than 4GB of RAM (32bit addressing limitation), problem is one wouldn't want to jump too soon, before all the drivers and software is ported for 64bit, not much point in getting a 64bit computer with 8GB of RAM and then running programs in 32bit mode. I've often wondered just how useful having 4 processor cores actually is with the normal Windows licence only covering a maximum of two processors...last I heard, so is the full potential of 4 cores actually realized?
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

The situation is improving with multi core support increasing all the time Lightroom is quite effective at using more than 2 cores and so is PS as well. The speed advantage with 64bit is more limited to some intensive applications such as heavy duty rendering and software such as Adobe Premiere Pro I believe only supports 64bit.

Some software will have to run in 32bit mode but as time goes on more support comes along for 64bit. Right now building or buying a Windows PC really you want to go 64bit.
GPU support has also increased with some programs making more use of that software and even a fairly basic modern ish card will help with HD playback and encoding (depending on software) as well as offloading flash from the CPU to a degree.

The Windows licensing covers physical processors not cores you can run a 4/6 core CPU on home premium but for 2 physical processors you will need Pro or above (probably pointless going above pro for most people) Few home users will run more than 1 physical processor as it's quite costly to make a system like that not just the processors but the mainboards are pricey too. I'm buidling a new PC right now but I'm waiting on the AMD CPU new releases to see what the story is there. I might go for Win 7 pro as it has XP virtual mode which could be useful. Despite some early issues with Win 7 it is actually one of the better releases from Microsoft it's a lot better than Vista ever was. I don't think MS will change much with Windows 8 which is out next year I think they've learnt that big changes can sometimes come back to haunt them. Vista was not liked by PC builders and gurus at all I stayed well away from it. Now isn't a bad time to consider updating a pc I'm running a dual core AMD with 3Gb or ram which runs reasonably well for most applications it's starting to get bogged down a bit with LR and higher res raw files etc, usable but I'll get a significant speed improvement even with a not insane quad core CPU.

[Greg Beetham]

Yep you're dead right about Vista not winning any popularity contest with lots of people Barry, Microsoft changed the whole system from the ground up, nothing like XP at all internally which was like Windows NT with a fancy desktop. The main problem with Vista I think was legacy peripheral items with no Vista drivers and lots of OEM's not bothering too much to write new updated drivers for older gear, in other words go forth young man and buy a new Printer, scanner whatever, which has shiny new Vista drivers on the disk. Funny thing now that all the kerfuffel has died down about Vista most of the drivers that were upgraded for it are now required for Win7 as well (very similar system under the skin actually, it's been described by a Microsoft engineer as Vista lite), so now Win7 can sail off into the sunset with a clean skin ha ha. I have had two quad 'core' systems running Vista and a bunch of programs for some time now (Vista premium and ultimate) and I can honestly say nothing bad about them, the only qlitch I had was hardware related, so I at least think Vista is quite ok.
Greg