Nikon D300s released

[alphaomega]

Details can be found on DPReview at http://www.dpreview.com/news/0907/09073 ... nd300s.asp

As widely rumoured the sensor is

DX-format CMOS image sensor; 12.3 effective megapixels
The D300S employs Nikon’s renowned DX-format CMOS image sensor that provides 12.3 effective megapixels. It delivers extraordinary image quality throughout a wide ISO sensitivity range of ISO 200 to ISO 3200 with low noise. In addition, Lo 1 for ISO 100 equivalent and Hi 1 for ISO 6400 equivalent are also available. Initial image capture data can be quickly and accurately transferred using 14-bit integrated A/D conversion. All successive internal processing is then handled at a full 16 bits. The resulting output reveals breathtaking details and remarkably smooth tonal gradations.

So if the A850 is going to be APS-C as is more and more likely it will almost certainly also feature a development of the A700 sensor. We will see in due course. It better have lower noise at higher ISOs than A700 v.4

[bfitzgerald]

Pretty much as expected, nothing shocking for this model, or the D3000 (Minor tweaks, updated with the 11 point AF system)
But then if you think about it..the D300 was pretty strong, was there much to put in there?

12mp is fine, I think Canon are going OTT with pixel pumping myself..Nikon will have the edge for high ISO, which is what they want probably.

[stevecim]

hopefully Sony will release something to match it, I likes it's "7fps" and "Quiet Shutter-release mode for non-intrusive shooting" it has 51 point AF system, with 15 cross type sensors. no mention of 2.8 f AF sensors like the a700/900.

I don't care is Sony don't match it feature by feature but I would like to see Sony bring out serious upgrades to the a300/350/700

[bfitzgerald]

I was just reading a few Nikon users posts, and it appears the D300s is going to be released with a uk price of £1400+!

I would class the D300 as a pro level APS camera, but in honestly..I cannot see the point of paying that price for one, it makes the A900 look like a bargain at just a few hundred more. I for once would rather have a FF than an APS, even if the Nikon has more FPS and other bit etc.

Maybe Sony are not so dumb after all.

If they do a new A700, I think they are better off at the £1000 level, not too much more. Let Nikon play about with pricey APS, let's get something FF in there for the D300 price That would really rock the boat

[Dusty]

Sony could have some real "wow factor" if the 850 was a FF camera w/ a 16 - 18 MP sensor for $1500 or less.

Just doing 12MP FF is so yawn.....

Dusty

[bfitzgerald]

Don, I cannot speak about USA prices, but UK wise the A900 is only going to be £200/£300 more than this rehashed Nikon.

Not that I would spend that sort of cash on a body, but if somebody dressed up as santa, and said take your pick of the Nikon or the A900. Guess which one I would go for

It's not completely daft to think of a less pricey FF Sony body, at some point. The A900 is already fairly affordable (in the grand scheme of expensive FF bodies)

[Dusty]

Sony could have some real "wow factor" if the 850 was a FF camera w/ a 16 - 18 MP sensor for $1500 or less.

Just doing 12MP FF is so yawn.....

Dusty

Joke me some more! Please, I need another good laugh. The 12MP APS-C a700 was $1400 when released...for $1500 Sony may give you a bare FF sensor. Not only are your jokes bad but your yawns are even worse!

-Sonolta

Yes, but that was then, this is now. The FF engineering has already been done, and I'm not talking about a direct competitor to the 900, more like a "starter" FF camera. In crop mode, it would yield less that the 700 does, resolution wise, but that may be an opportunity to push the high ISO performance a bit. What if they took your coveted KM5D sensor and upscaled it, along with a bit of a refresh?

It would do no good for you, unless you would give up the 1.5 lens factor for a higher ISO sensor w/ more MP, there are those who would like it. It would also marry users to FF glass, giving Sony a reason to produce more FF lens options, and provide an upsell platform for them.

Dusty

[KevinBarrett]

I'm pretty sure the a900 is an "entry-level" full-frame body, and that there's not much that could be stripped away unless they did a "+30" to it and took away all the buttons. It's very affordable, particularly for its speed, resolution, and control...like a bargain medium format camera. Sony really hasn't any need to go a step lower.

Now the D300s will definitely be a problem for Sony. As if the D300 wasn't tempting enough already! I personally think Sony has two models to release at that level, both an a800 and an a850. Sony may have only leaked an "a850" designation, but the leaks that preceded the release of the a230, a330 and a380 only represented the a330.

[rush2112]

Details can be found on DPReview at http://www.dpreview.com/news/0907/09073 ... nd300s.asp

As widely rumoured the sensor is

DX-format CMOS image sensor; 12.3 effective megapixels
The D300S employs Nikon’s renowned DX-format CMOS image sensor that provides 12.3 effective megapixels. It delivers extraordinary image quality throughout a wide ISO sensitivity range of ISO 200 to ISO 3200 with low noise. In addition, Lo 1 for ISO 100 equivalent and Hi 1 for ISO 6400 equivalent are also available. Initial image capture data can be quickly and accurately transferred using 14-bit integrated A/D conversion. All successive internal processing is then handled at a full 16 bits. The resulting output reveals breathtaking details and remarkably smooth tonal gradations.

So if the A850 is going to be APS-C as is more and more likely it will almost certainly also feature a development of the A700 sensor. We will see in due course. It better have lower noise at higher ISOs than A700 v.4

I'm willing to bet the A850 is going to be a 24mp full frame sensor. I'd bet a fair share of my wallet on it.

Carl

[alphaomega]

Sonolta wrote:

I also predicted the 850 would be FF but I figured it would most likely be a lower MP machine

I think that we are no closer to predict the sensor in the expected A850 DSLR. Personally I think it will be either the Exmor 12Mp developed from the A700 and as refined in the D300s with video etc. or a variant of the A900 24Mp sensor. I was hoping for a +/- 16Mp APS-C sensor and people like Sonolta would rather have a FF sensor of the same size with higher frame rate and much lower high ISO noise. The reason I believe in "old" sensors being used? There has been no commercialisation by Sony of a new DSLR sensor that would indicate a new sensor being used. If such a new APS-C sensor was released it would already have been in the A300s possibly designated D400. I believe that possibly Nikon have turned against Canon's "high Mp" philosophy in APS-C such as in the 50D and they are quite happy with their current 12Mp FF sensor apparently not supplied by Sony. Sony will probably not develop yet another DSLR sensor with Sony being the only customer. If Nikon says no it is a no-go. I reckon Nikon have looked at the 14Mp CCD in the A350/380 and turned it down on high ISO noise, which even they could not conquor. The spare parts price discussion indicated that the A850 would probably be APS-C but making it 800 series would probably lend credence to a FF configuration. If so I believe it would be 24Mp. My experience from dealing with large companies the size of Sony tells me that the sensor division has its own financial objectives and they are not about to develop high cost sensors if the demand does not measure up. This division knew all along that Nikon would pick up the 24Mp Exmor so it was developed. Would it have been made solely for the A900? Never. Just my opinion.

[bfitzgerald]

It has to be FF, APS-C at a level higher than the A700, would be boring and not shake the market up. Sony need to attack rivals, who are currently not offering something a bit more affordable (in relative terms of course) FF wise.

I believe they certainly can make a FF model cheaper than the A900, many ways to do that. Less use of mag alloy is one way, smaller pentaprism, even the use of plastics (high quality ones) could reduce manufacturing costs a fair bit. Let's not forget, those sensors are not "that expensive" to make, and production costs reduce with higher yields, and as technology improves (in exactly the same way CPU's get cheaper over time, and better)

[KevinBarrett]

A FF model below the a900 will offer very little temptation for upgrading a700 users. Already, the a900 is little more than a FF a700 with live preview and micro lens adjustment. As an a700 user, the only temptation the a900 has for me now is a Hugh Jazz viewfinder.

[David Kilpatrick]

The manual needed minimal editing. They moved the ISO from sensor specs to exposure system specs, just as they have done with the A350 to A380 manual change.

There are literally no changes at all to the A850 except the frame-rate/sequence total/card writing, and the finder specs (and the magnification and eyepoint remain identical, meaning the ocular section is unchanged). Even the stated battery life of 880 frames is the same, despite the lower shooting speed. This is one clue that the camera might even have dual BIONZ just like the A900, though I'm assuming it has single BIONZ plus a new post-processing module occupying the space.

David

[PhotoTraveler]

I doubt the processors have any noticeable impact on battery life.

They very well didn't bother re-doing the test. Afterall, they know it can do no worse. So worst case is their figure is low, which isn't an issue.

A big part I'm curious on is if the view finder reduction allowed for a different mirror system, a conventional one instead of a 4 bar. Any savings in production may be off set by development cost though.

[David Kilpatrick]

The mirror system is not a result of the finder, it had to be designed because of the SSS carriage (this was explained at the UK press conference). Frankly, the difference between a 98% fixed mask and a 100% with adjustment screws and a special carriage to hold it would be a big saving - not to mention the semi-manual adjustment, connected to a computer, which 'sets u[' every Alpha 900 for 100 per cent finder accuracy.

I'm pretty sure the prism assembly price difference in the parts lists comes down to using a fresnel or a moulded condensor plus the fixed mask, versus the separate optical condensor and adjustable mask. The mirror action will be identical, they were unable to place a conventional hinge as the SSS carriage got in the way - and that part all seems to be totally unchanged.

David