Discussion of all digital SLR cameras under the Minolta and Konica Minolta brands
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bfitzgerald wrote:I have no idea how accurate the data is, but to point out a few things.
Olympus EP-1 only announced in June 2009
Panasonic GF-1, Sept 2009
You have to understand Barry that the EP-1 and GF-1 are targeted in the same way a Leica is: a object of desire -and specially desirable for the Japanese people -that is why you have such a positive numbers for cameras "just arrived to the shelves". And that is why Sony is working on a similar camera (as you noted on your prediction for this year)
In a nice conversation with a senior Marketing Manager at the Photo Plus Expo, when I asked about a EP1-like camera from Sony, he only ask me if I considered this kind of camera as a primary camera or as a secondary camera: definitively as a secondary camera.
BTW, I understand that the A850 is not (officially) for sale in Japan.
pakodominguez wrote:
Do you understand that Japan represent 30% of the global market? That is why we have to endure the dictatorship of Japanese's trends. Sony USA (or any European branch) have very little influence on what the headquarter decide.
supposedly as far as Alpha is concerned Europe does have a lot of influence.
pakodominguez wrote:
Do you understand that Japan represent 30% of the global market? That is why we have to endure the dictatorship of Japanese's trends. Sony USA (or any European branch) have very little influence on what the headquarter decide.
supposedly as far as Alpha is concerned Europe does have a lot of influence.
30% Japan, 30% USA and about 35% the rest of the world.
Japan rules...
Heidfirst wrote:
supposedly as far as Alpha is concerned Europe does have a lot of influence.
30% Japan, 30% USA and about 35% the rest of the world.
Japan rules...
that's possibly global total market but a lot of Alpha development is supposedly European based.
Alpha has ~20% market share in Europe - 20% of 30% is considerably larger than 4% of 30% (I imagine that Europe is by far the largest chunk of "row" & should be similar to the US market).
No recent numbers, but it was near 20% (end of 2008, some regions, UK, Germany, France etc), but that was probably down to a very cheap A200 in Europe. And reasonably decent selling A350/A300 models.
For 2009 I would expect a performance that is worse, A230 is not selling as well, nor as cheap. Ditto on the A330 and A380.
Still, it's puzzling why Sony is so poor sales wise in the USA, and it appears recently Japan. Overall I would expect their market share to have dropped worldwide in 2009. I think their line-up APS wise is not very competitive v rivals, and it's going to show on the numbers.
bfitzgerald wrote:No recent numbers, but it was near 20% (end of 2008, some regions, UK, Germany, France etc), but that was probably down to a very cheap A200 in Europe. And reasonably decent selling A350/A300 models.
For 2009 I would expect a performance that is worse, A230 is not selling as well, nor as cheap. Ditto on the A330 and A380.
Still, it's puzzling why Sony is so poor sales wise in the USA, and it appears recently Japan. Overall I would expect their market share to have dropped worldwide in 2009. I think their line-up APS wise is not very competitive v rivals, and it's going to show on the numbers.
In the US, Sony Alpha's marketing has been God-awful, all the way from the minimal & uninspiring advertising to lack of shelf space & the invisibility of Sony USA, vis-a-vis what I see in Canada & Europe, for example, where Sony Alpha is a real presence.
Dulaney
Alpha 700, SAL 50 f1.4, SAL 18-250, SAL 85 f1.4 ZA
Winedarksea wrote:In the US, Sony Alpha's marketing has been God-awful, all the way from the minimal & uninspiring advertising to lack of shelf space & the invisibility of Sony USA, vis-a-vis what I see in Canada & Europe, for example, where Sony Alpha is a real presence.
I am not qualified to speak about Canada and Europe, but I agree completely in regard to the failure of Sony Alpha marketing in the U.S. I attribute much of this to a complete lack of knowledge of the DSLR market by their upper-level executives, and this is more than speculation on my part.
Last summer I went to a photo workshop aimed at serious amateurs, which was sponsored by a local camera store and several third-party companies such as Tamron, Nik Software, etc. While there, I was chatting with the rep for one of those third-party companies, who is assigned by them to go to similar events all over the country. When I commented to him about Sony's lack of visibility in the DSLR market, he remarked that one of his close friends is a mid-level executive in the Sony camera division. He said that his friend had told him that it was very frustrating dealing with the upper levels of Sony USA, because they are locked into the mind-set of consumer electronics mass-marketing, and have zero understanding of the upper end of the camera market. His friend told him that he and some of his colleagues were attempting to change that mind-set, but that it is like trying to push a rope uphill.
That scenario is what I perceive, along with very poor communication by Sony Alpha marketing. Someone in Sony has had the sense to set up Sony's "Artisans of Imaging" program to compete with similar programs by Canon, Nikon, Sigma, Tamron, etc. but even though it has apparently been in place for some time, I discovered it by accident only last month. What is the point of setting up such a program - obviously intended for marketing to the serious or semi-serious amateur - if you fail to let the market know about it?
Australia is not much better, Sony did have a bigish marketing effort for the A230/A330/A380, but zero for the A5XX, there are camera stores in Melbourne that still don't have any A5XX on display.
Sony, seems to be firmly on the path of trying to change the DSLR into a PnS throw away market, It will be interesting to see what there next few cameras look like, A model like the A5XX but with out live view might do OK but would depend on what features they leave out or fail to put in..
I think in South Africa, things are a bit better. They try hard with the availible funds. I am an ameteur, but I know some of the Sony technicians. The people are eager to help.
I am sure it will take some time for the big camera shops to take Sont seriously.
I am hoping that the Soccer will help to create a more professional orientated service and seriousness.
Well I love my Alpha and can't wait to see the new 700.
Sadly things seem to be going backwards for Sony in my local town. 12 months ago there was a branch of the London Camera Exchange (LCE) in town that was a "Sony Centre of Excellence", and a Jessops which offered similar shelf space to Sony as to Canikon. Now, at the start of 2010, the LCE doesn't seem to stock any Sony dslr stuff (the big Sony display case has gone), and the Jessops' Sony cabinet is pretty empty, just a A230 in it with some of the cheaper lenses. Olympus seem to have more on offer in the Jessops branch, PEN and dslr models, than Sony.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.
I've only really seen A230's in a few shops, and not much else, even a flash or a lens. It's dominated by Canon and Nikon.
The only rarer sight is Pentax, which is hard to find in any shape or form.
I'm not sure if this suggests something, maybe Sony have worse margins? Or maybe the company is simply not trying to get the models out there, either way something is not right. Cannot be the resale price maintenance (manufacturer fixed prices for retail), as that is illegal in the EU. I cannot say I blame the shops, if they sell the Canikon stuff, and well, why bother with Sony? Money talks..esp in retail.
I think Sony's "you cant put it on sale" doggie-doo hurts them. Everyone wants a bargain, and why waste ad space in your store flyer if you cannot say that the camera is 5% off or "Save $75"?
Admittedly, you get more bang for the buck with a Sony DSLR, at least on the high end - I'm not so sure anymore on the entry models. However you pay thru the nose for the accessories. Their cables and flashes are ridiculous.
Maybe they'll get smarter, but being the electronics giant that they are, I somehow doubt it.
Dusty wrote:I think Sony's "you cant put it on sale" doggie-doo hurts them. Everyone wants a bargain, and why waste ad space in your store flyer if you cannot say that the camera is 5% off or "Save $75"? ....
Dusty
True in your country but retail price maintenance is illegal throughout the EU so here we do get store discounting.
Here in Japan the big 4 based on lots of shelf space is Canon, Nikon, Pentax, and Olympus. Sony has a much smaller presence. I was just at one of the huge Bic Camera stores near the Ikebukuro station in Tokyo last night. They had one A900, the A550 (just released in Japan recently), A380, and A230. They did have a display case with all or most of the Sony lenses though.
