You've got it the wrong way around - Sony decide what they will make (based on what they believe will sell best), there is no dictating to customers to buy. Ultimately Canon, Nikon etc. are doing what they believe to be in their best interest not ours.

Why pre-visualize when you can visualize?

And Barry, the point you are missing about all of you pentax comments. We don't care that you are here, so long as you are contributing meaningful discussion. However, is this is an ALPHA forum, and we really don't care about pentax. If you do great. Go talk about your pentax gear on the pentax forums. When you are here, try to keep it contained to alpha mount. It gets really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really tiresome to hear the SAME THINGS about pentax over, and over, and over and over and over and over again. It's not that folks don't want your participation, just keep it relevant to THIS forum.

[quote="bfitzgerald"]
I'll be just as critical in some ways of Pentax if needed and have been in the past, users giving feedback drives makers to respond and improve products.quote]

Sorry they do not even look at the comments on forums the sales are driven by the wants of the many and if they feel there is a market with the DVF they will make it, if it does not sell they will drop it is as simple as that.
Take cars for an example, what ones are making the headlines? Duel Fuel and electric cars, even Ford have announced an electric car, do I want one no, I don’t live in a city and the amount of miles I do It is just not cost effective for me, but if they do sell there will be even more of them being developed, that is progress the same with camera gear.
Many people still like Classic cars, do I want one no, I hated the bad brakes and fuel consumption when I had them new.
Regards
Richard

There is little point in repeating the same points over again it's rather simple to me Sony's direction is exactly the opposite of what I like and I consider them a million miles away from what Minolta were. I've little interest in market share or their desire to bag consumers at the expense of serious enthusiasts. Minolta made cameras for photographers designed by photographers, Sony don't simple as that. It has nothing to do with the company at all I have Sony products I just look at all makers for stuff I buy and pick the one that suits my needs best be it a TV or a camera.

Pre-visualisation requires a non processed image you have a feel for how you want it to look, you can't really explain this one bar the obvious point I see with my eyes and I require a tool that gives me a view as my eyes do. Any references to other makers are made in the context of the discussions which have in the past also made passing nods to what is going on in the camera world.

Then WHY do you keep showing up here? The only logical conclusion is you have an axe to grind, or you want to try an validate your own decision to move to pentax by continuously bashing Sony's new direction. Look, most of us here have made our purchasing decisions. You putting up an opposing position is not going to change that. Quite frankly, I, and many other members on this board are quite weary of it and it borders on troll like behavior. The fact that you can do it in a civil fashion is what keep you from getting banned. We get your position. We really, really do. The fact is, you really don't have much positive to contribute here, and I think most of the folks here would really like you to. I cannot recall you every posting 1 image to this site. Why not contribute something positive to the site for a change?



I'm very much aware of what pre-visualisation is. My point here is, the EVF is perfect for what you are saying. At some point, unless you want to exclusively want to shoot film, you have to go to an electronic "viewfinder" of some point in the process weather that's in the camera, or on a computer screen. If you use an optical viewfinder in your digital camera, you are still going to have to transform that image to and electronic view on your computers monitor. All the a33/55, and a majority of p/s cameras, nex do it take that conversion process up one step and put it in the camera. It gives you a bit on insite as to how that image will look on your computer screen. That's all it does. Well that and opening up a wide range of other awesome features on a camera that cameras that use flapping mirrors cannot.

Even you A200 does the same thing. It just does it after you push the shutter. Honestly, have you ever taken a picture and then looked at instant preview to see what you just got not been happy with it and shot again? If you say no, you are lying. All an EVF does it eliminate the step of having to remove your eye from the camera. In reality, that's a big plus.

I get the point that some of you make that the resolution in the EVF isn't where many folks would like it to be. Keep in mind that the a33 and a55 are first generation models. That technology is only going to get better. Not one person here has looked through the viewfinder of the a77 (or what ever it will be called). Nobody here knows what that display will look like. Yet so many here are ready to write it off. If that's the case, you are doing yourself a dis-service. Give the thing a chance before you write it off.

While I don't own one, nor do I think I would buy one, I really enjoyed the experience of shooting with the a55. Honestly, the EVF was the reason I enjoyed it so. It allowed me to do everything I needed to do. Did I see every speck of detail in the EVF? No (the display screen on my wife's nex is incredible detailed). Do I pay attention to that stuff normally, on rare occasions, yes. Would the a55 hold me back in those situations? I doubt it.

My point in all of this is the reason OVF's use to be touted on digital cameras was due to the really poor battery life of older cameras. It used to be a nifty feature to turn off the display to get every electron of juice out of your batteries. This really isn't the case anymore as battery technology has really come a long way in the past few years, yet some people cling to the idea of an OVF like dogma. I can take close to 1,000 shots on my a900 before I need to recharge. I haven't done a test on the NEX, but online reports are 300-400. When I was using it over christmas I think we only had to recharge it every couple of days. With two batteries, I was never at a loss for power.

Anyway I'm rambling now. I think I'm speaking for alot of the group when I say, you are a valuable member of the community, but many of us are weary of the negative, sony bashing, pentax loving posts of yours. All we are asking is that you keep the posts more positive.

The solution to your problems is quite obvious and simple. Complaining that I express my views (however tiresome and boring you might find that) in a thread that invites users to express their opinions is fairly odd. And all users can do this whatever view they have on this topic

I read threads on forums (sometimes not even photo related) if I find it boring I don't read it..nor would I bother posting (not that I'm registered for many forums bar this and a few photo ones) If you want to have a debate an exchange of views then stick to it..if you wish to have a moan about me or why I post here you have not really worked me out and by now you should have.

If it's not completely obvious then I'll tell you

The more you (or anyone else) complains or suggests I wander off to pastures new or gets a bit upset/personal etc etc, the more I post and ramp up things. This is amazingly predictable and it's been like that for some time now It's actually a form of internet bullying as was witnessed on DPR forums too, I don't take kindly to it (consider it akin to throwing petrol on a fire!)
If you just accepted that I have a view (and I'm not likely to change it) and stopped challenging me for holding that view (this applies to others too) then you might find we'll have a much more friendly forum. I might even be temped to start discussions of a purely photographic nature.

Now I actually don't mind taking this onto a deeper level if you find that amusing..because it gives a very useful insight into things and why we react to comments on forums in the way we do.

Barry,

With you it's not debate. It you spraying anti-sony propaganda in almost every thread. That's what we are tired of.

And who said this place was about "debate"? I thought it was about conversation....

Barry you are just like my Wife, She always has to have the last word
I am not calling you an old woman butttt
Regards
Richard

The problem with internet forums is that you have no visual or audio clues and often posts can be taken the wrong way which would not happen in a face to face discussion!

I admit I am many things..stubborn, persistent and inflexible I tend to hold views that don't often change this is not entirely rare and any perceived negative aspect/personality trait can be taken as a positive too the coin has two sides as they say. So I am actually happy to accept that my views are not shared by everyone, question is why keep trying? lol You could also reverse that and say why do I keep trying to change Sony's mind a curious thing to think about.

The other big problem is we expect others to react in the same way we do which of course they do not. I tend to react to most events (I'm deliberately being general here not photographic) firstly in an emotional way..never with my head and logical. Some are the exact reverse..and somewhere out there folks have a balance. Over time I've learnt to try to take a breath and step back a bit it's not perfect but improved over time. I guess what I am saying is everyone is different..and possibly we need to accept that (all of us) and try to work around these things in a more civilised manner. I hope this little snap shot helps out!

I give up, I surender

It is pure guess work to give percentages, you can guarantee one thing though, Sony will have done their “sums” on what is profitable for them and products that will sell.
Lets face it that is what any business is in the market for not to make a loss.
I have tried the A-55 and was quite surprised with the quality of the viewfinder and my main reason for not buying one was in my large, now clumsy hands it was just too small, many younger types will and do like it, also I do loads of wildlife shots mainly at my local wetland trust Slimbridge Sir Peter Scott’s place and a large lens on the front would make it unbalanced for me, why I bought the A-580 instead and for the money an excellent choice.
I will have an open mind about the A700 replacement I just hope it is all that Sony promise, if it is I will be in the queue for one.
Regards
Richard

have to agree Tom, and I would not be surprised if less than 10% of people who buy Canon 7Ds are "Serious Photographers"
but this is nothing new, it was the same in the film days. but the model of producing high end SLRs for a tiny portion of the market (i.e Pro users) and using that small slice of market to drive big sales at the low end has worked very well for Canon and Nikon and will continue to do so. There would not be a single sales person anywhere in the world that has not used the line " all the Pros use Can/Nik , so you can't go wrong"

I remember seeing a interview from some Sony exec, who stated Sony could never compete with Nik/Can in the high end of the market, Which would mean they have to use a different marketing model then Can/Nik and that is what they have done, they have tried to create new markets which directly targets the bulk of Camera buyers with out trying to grow a high pro market.

If Sony can get enough of the market share then they may try to revisit the high end market. there are would be some segments of the Pro market that may even prefer a high quality EVF over a OVF

Thanks for your explanations Barry. It gives me a better understanding of what drives you. I was wondering why you chose a Stonewall Jackson picture rather than Ulysses S. Grant or perhaps General Patton. General Jackson apparently was stupid enough to let his own people shoot him just before Gettysburg so that he died of complications before that battle. At least Patton survived until after the war and Grant became president. Both Grant and Patton believed in relentless pursuit af their objectives until achieved.

What drives him isn't photography it just happens to be what he knows about. In my line of work I have met many like him.
It doesn't matter if Sony make quantum leaps forward as they have practically done, he needs his crusade as much as air, food and water
He needs you guys to respond as you have done. Reasoned response won't work as you have seen. The only way is to ignore him you can't have a tennis match with just one player, he would soon get fed up and go home.

I still have an H1 and the R1 that still give good service but looking to get into something more. I like the look and sound of the A55 and very taken with the Nex system. But I think I will wait for the DSLT A77 to come along and hopefully the new Nex incarnation.

I personally think that Sony coming into DLSR has been the best thing to happen to the industry in many a long year. And I feel excited about what's to come from all the players in the market now that Sony has put the cat among the pidgeons with thier new technologies. All will have to do as well if not better than Sony to survive. And the winners will be us, whichever brand you use.

Regards

Davy.