UW zooms: Your opinions.

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Atgets_Apprentice
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UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

I'm looking at the possibility of buying a UW zoom, and am kind of torn between the Sigma 10-20mm f4, and the Tamron 10-24mm f3.5. I'm looking to buy used, which rules out going for the Tokina 11-16mm, as it's still too expensive for me. The Tamron/Sony 11-18mm is too slow at f4.5, so can you guys give me your thoughts and opinions on the front runners?
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

The Sigma is the best choice. You may be able to find an HSM example for Sony (I am not entirely sure on this) where the Tamron is not USD. HSM will not work on your film Dynax cameras, except the Dynax 5 I think. It will work on all the digitals and the focus will be that little bit more accurate.

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shooter
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by shooter »

I have the Tokina (I read David doesn't like it) and am very happy with it. I only use it UW as I have the 16-35/2.8 and I'm impressed with the IQ. I shoot mainly landscapes and don't require it often but when I do it fits the bill. It is not being produced anymore. Next lens I'd agree with the Sigma but from my understanding only the latest version which probably rules out a cheaper 2nd hand one. Maybe David can comment on the different versions
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

I like the Tokina well enough, and it has one major benefit - it turns on f/2.8 sensor in the A700 (and in some other camera fits and makes). This actually means the lens focuses at 11mm, unlike the Tamron/Sony/KM 11-18mm which often simply doesn't focus - it just alters the focus, but the depth of field is so great with an f/7.1 AF sensor that the result is entirely random within a wide range, 1.5m to infinity.

Because the Tokina is f/2.8 it is the ONLY such lens which can turn on f/2.8 centre sensor points, and this vastly improves focus accuracy. However, all the latest Sony models (all SLTs) no longer have any f/2.8 AF points, they all work at f/5.6 just like Nikon. So no matter what ultrawide you buy, it will never focus accurately or repeatably.

The new versions of the Sigma and Tamron are not actually as good as the older ones in many ways. The Sigma new version has less flare into the light, but it is softer at 10mm. The Tamron has a wider range, and the distortion, vignetting and corner softening are all inferior to the old 11-18mm. In both cases, the centre sharpness of the new designs is better but the edges look worse by comparison.

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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

Mmm... I now have more to think about! The Sigma f4 is my first choice, at the moment, as I had heard about the softness issue before, and that there is more vignetting, with the f3.5. I have seen a reasonably priced used Sony 11-18mm, but I am still concerned by the f4.5 aperture, as I do a lot of church interiors, where tripods aren't always welcome, and I prefer natural light. On terms of price, the Tamron wins, but it is the results I want, not a few quid left in the bank, at the end of the day!

Thanks to all for the advice, so far, keep it coming. Once my compo comes through, I'll update you on what I eventually buy.
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by classiccameras »

Tokina lenses are an interesting proposition, they came from the old Cosina dynasty which years ago were really at the budget end of the independant lenses and not renowned for brilliant performance. I suspect things have moved on since those days as the current batch of Toks are not bad at all. I had a Tok 12-24 Mk 2 on my old Canon 450D and it was pretty good and the build quality was top notch, in fact better than most, but the Sigma 10-20 was far better optically which I eventually traded it for.
Its a shame that Tokina only do Canon and Nikon mounts.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Some of the older Tokina lenses were a bit hit and miss more miss than hit in my own experience. The newer ones get more respect though
An UWA for APS-C is probably the last lens I would get (not to say I won't get one it's just way down the list)

Ken Rockwell likes the Tokina 11-16mm (make of that what you want to!)
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tokina/11-16mm.htm
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Tokina lenses are not connected to Cosina. They are Hoya subsidiary, and the only lenses identical to Tokina today are certain Pentax models. Tokina marketed a wide range of designs to third parties in the 1980s-90s. These designs include the 100-400mm Minolta APO, which was made by Tokina (Minolta bought exclusive rights). If you ever find a Cosina 100-400mm, the difference is huge - entirely different design concept. Different Minolta 100-300mm lenses have been made by Tokina, Minolta's own factories, and Sigma. The APO D is presumed to be a Tokina design, made by Minolta.

I'm not aware of any Cosina designs identical to Tokina. Even the various 100mm macros, 19-35mm, 20-30mm etc lenses sold under the Vivitar and other names and made by Cosina are significantly different from Tokina models with pretty close matches to the specs.

Tokina produced lenses for Allied Impex, better known as Soligor, and some of these are pretty exceptional - the Soligor C/D series in particular. They were competing directly with Kino Optical and some other small shops with computer design time, then new, to use glass types developed by Hoya.

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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by classiccameras »

I just read it some where on another site that Cosina and Tokina were from a common source but never said there were identical models.
I guess the other site must be wrong.
Yes, certainly, some Pentax lenses look like they have the Tokina hall mark stamped all over them. As you say, if Hoya own Tokina and Pentax then its logical they will be making lenses for Pentax.
I remember Soligor lenses, some were very good and some were milk bottles,
The worst lens I ever came across was a Hanimex.
Hoya, who up untill recently owned Pentax now makes you wonder if the Hoya connection will continue for Pentax lenses or will Ricoh have a say in future lenses.
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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

OK, I went window shopping yesterday, in the last remaining Camera Dealer in Glasgow, (Merchant City Cameras), and had a bit of hands-on time with both the Sigma & Tamron. I couldn't try them on the a580, so had to make do with a Nikon D3100. To my old eyes, I saw very little difference optically,(It was in no way a scientific test!), no difference in AF speed, and only a minimal difference in build quality. The one big difference I did see was the £60 price difference, in favour of the Tamron! I did prefer the Tamron handling too, probably because I am used to other Tamrons as it is. Still much thinking to be done, it seems.
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

You tested on a Nikon camera which only accepts in-lens motor focusing. For Nikon, the Tamron has in-lens focus. For Sony, it has screw drive. Big difference. Same for the older Sigma models.

Sadly, you can not judge focus without using your own system - and you can't judge the quality of these lenses without studying the full size file at leisure.

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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

I get what you are saying, David. Unfortunately, with the demise of Jessops, there is nowhere else to try the lenses out, and I think MCC would be looking for an order from me before getting anything into stock, which I don't want to do until I've tried them both on an Alpha! Catch 22!
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....
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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

Update:

I got to try a Sigma 10-20mm from a Flickr friend, and was impressed. This gave me the oportunity to have a good look at RAW & Jpeg across the zoom & aperture ranges, and there are no problems I can't live with.

As a result of this, I have picked up a pre-owned one on ebay, and got a deal from the seller that was £100 lower than the average ebay/pre-owned price.

All I need now is to recover from the surgery I had this morning, and get back out there to use it! Thanks again for all the advice. If it's wrong I'll sue the lot of you!
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....
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Dr. Harout
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by Dr. Harout »

Atgets_Apprentice wrote:...All I need now is to recover from the surgery I had this morning, and get back out there to use it! Thanks again for all the advice. If it's wrong I'll sue the lot of you!
Get well soon my friend.
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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: UW zooms: Your opinions.

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

Dr. Harout wrote:
Atgets_Apprentice wrote:...All I need now is to recover from the surgery I had this morning, and get back out there to use it! Thanks again for all the advice. If it's wrong I'll sue the lot of you!
Get well soon my friend.
Շնորհակալություն:
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....
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