Canon EOS 70D announced

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bakubo
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

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classiccameras wrote:That must be a great photogenic place, watch out for the bears, they can smell your food miles away.
This was our fifth time to be at Yellowstone NP. Great place. I much prefer it at other times of year, but this time late July/late August was the convenient time for us to go. We also camped at Rocky Mountain NP, Colorado (third time to go there) before we got to Yellowstone.
classiccameras wrote:People are already griping about big lenses on M4/3 bodies.
classiccameras wrote:No, I saw a big 4/3 legacy Zuiko tele on a OMD body via an adaptor and it looked crazy.
Attaching a big 4/3 lens with adapter to an m4/3 body isn't the same thing at all as attaching an m4/3 lens to an m4/3 body. Attach a lens such as the A-mount Sony 80-400mm using an adapter to a NEX body and it is also quite strange and awkward, right?
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bakubo
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by bakubo »

I noticed today that the 70D samples are up and the raw comparison tool can be used:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d/9
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bakubo
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

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bakubo wrote:I played with the 100D a couple of times in Japan recently. It is quite small, but the design works pretty well. It has a bit of the same issue as the NEX cameras though: small body with big lenses. The 100D isn't as small as a NEX though so the lenses, depending on which one you mount, don't feel as weird as some of the NEX combos. Some Canon lenses that I mounted on it were fairly small and felt okay on it and those are also the lenses that probably most 100D buyers would be interested in.

Here is what I suspect. Canon will sell many, many, many more 100D cameras than Sony sold A230, A330, A380 cameras. Those Sony models were also quite small, but much more uncomfortable to hold and the features and specs were decidedly poor. The 100D that I played with seemed to be pretty good and, I imagine, there will be buyers who will like it. I could even imagine it as a travel backup for someone who is using a 60D, 70D, or 7D since the 100D would take up so little space in a bag.
Not a review, but some thoughts about the Canon 100D/SL1.

5 Initial Thoughts About the Canon SL1: First Impressions

http://photo.net/reviews/canon-sl1-first-look/
classiccameras
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by classiccameras »

I'm not a pro, just an enthusiast so my response to this review will be more from that perspective. Firstly, its a good review and thanks for posting it.
There is no doubt that Canon are 'possibly' the best DSLR's out there, but after handling a 100D a few weeks ago, it was not as nice to hold as my A37 which is no bigger. Canon's vast range of lenses is for me the main reason to stay with Canon or at least join them if you intend to move over. They always get good reviews but then so do other makes.

At the basic end of the Canon lens range for us amateurs, their lenses are no better or worse than rival makes but sadly, some are more worse than good, so for the enthusiast the 'L' range must be your next port of call at a price though.
Canon's pricing is also very competative and it does draw first timers and add on fans to go/stay with that make.

There are some pros using M4/3 and the OMD and Panny GH2/3 and now G6 are very popular. Generally the M4/3 lenses especially the Panasonic primes and high end zooms [Olympus always seem to lag behind Panasonic] will out perform their APS-C rivals, especially the Leica primes and build quality is nearly always superior to APS-C.

As for IQ, my personal opinion is that Sony SLT cameras are up there with the best and I have never found the SLT system a handicap in real world pictures.
It will be interesing to see how the 100D sells over the next 12 Months as the CSC's are really making an impact now and at the enthusiasts and Pro level, people are building systems round that format.
I think If I was to move over to M4/3 the G6 will be high on my list as its just like using a DSLR and has in camera IS which is a bonus, plus don't forget the best sensor cleaning system there is thanks to Olympus, the supersonic wave cleaner.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

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When the 100d news came out I wasn't negative about it as I suspected it might suit some users needs or as a back up body. After using the 100d I'm a lot less impressed with it in the "hand" as such. I don't find it comfortable at all and the build whilst it's "ok" is nothing to get excited about. The problem is the design of the grip and at the top it's straight across from the grip into the main body, it crunches your fingers together. Def not a body I would want to use for any length of time.

And as said once you put anything other than a kit lens or a 40mm STM on it, the size simply doesn't make sense for most users.
Back to the 70d, I think it will do fairly well, but Canon screwed up big time by having the camera announced, and not being able to buy it for months on end. Last I checked Amazon had a pre order date in stock on 25th October, as of today that's over 2 months.

Way too long for any actual product to be available for sale. I suspect they were trying to stop people buying the D7100, which is on a fairly heavy price cut as Nikon put such a tiny buffer in that camera, it's couldn't sustain it's £1000+ price tag for more than a few weeks!

I'd imagine this phase detect sensor AF from Canon will work it's way down to the lower level cameras, so that gives them something to do after the joke EOS 700d release which was really pointless.

Will be interesting to see where makers go next on their crop sensor DSLR's, Nikon are at 24mp across the range, D3200 is due for an update soon ish, we'll see if they go "pixel crazy" and keep pumping the resolution on their models. I'm hopeful that we will see new sensors and non bayer designs for makers, and possibly Sony too.
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by alphaomega »

bfitzgerald
Will be interesting to see where makers go next on their crop sensor DSLR's, Nikon are at 24mp across the range, D3200 is due for an update soon ish, we'll see if they go "pixel crazy" and keep pumping the resolution on their models.
Just looked at the Nikon product site for listed cameras (presumed current)
D7100, D5200 and D3200 definitely 24.1Mp
D3100 14.2Mp
D5100 16.2Mp
D7000 16.2Mp
D300S 12.3Mp
D90 12.3Mp
Maybe Nikon have forgotten to remove these sub 24.1Mp cameras or perhaps they are still offering the odd one below 24.1Mp. In my opinion it is just ludicrous to offer 24.1Mp to DSLR beginners looking for 5x4 prints or images to send to friends.
classiccameras
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by classiccameras »

This pixel race is totally crazy and I'm convinced its a one upmanship ploy especially by Nikon to out sell the opposition. Canon have seen fit not to enter into the pixel race at the same intensity as they and their customers are happy with the 18mp.
Its a fact that most DSLR users will not be printing bigger than A4 and probably the vast majority of pictures will be for the hard drive and internet friends and family. Nearly all these 24mp Nikons are exhibiting more noise at higher ISO numbers than the older 16mp models. In my humble opinion, 16mp is the sweet spot for your average snapper.
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bakubo
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

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classiccameras wrote:I think If I was to move over to M4/3 the G6 will be high on my list as its just like using a DSLR and has in camera IS which is a bonus, plus don't forget the best sensor cleaning system there is thanks to Olympus, the supersonic wave cleaner.
The Panasonic G6 does not have IBIS. The new Panasonic GX7 does though.
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by classiccameras »

Sorry, I thought it did. still a nice camera though.
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bakubo
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

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There is a new user experience report on the 70D:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d/7
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

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6mp worked ok for me ;-)
Well if you were not doing major cropping that is.

Once we hit 10mp though I think the needs of most were met, I was never unhappy with 10/12/16mp and don't really feel any pressing need for more than that.
But I suspect we'll get 32mp from Sony and Nikon for the next APS-C models. That lossy DNG could come in real handy!

Back to the Canon, the report suggests the on sensor phase detect is very decent.
I know a few Alpha fans suggest that this is the tipping point for non OVF DSLR's to turn up from someone other than Sony. We've yet to see this happen though
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Greg Beetham
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

The 70D is looking good for video shooters but probably nothing that still shooters haven’t seen before, at least they look like they have solved the light loss problem at the same time, high ISO looks very good.
Like dpr said though the 70D has upstaged the model above while being a lesser model in the range, by quite a margin if you are doing video first and foremost, but probably not so much when it comes to stills.
Now if it had focus peaking on the rear screen and in body Anti Shake (so you didn’t have to pay for anti-shake with every lens) it would almost be a perfect camera.
Greg
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bakubo
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by bakubo »

Greg Beetham wrote:The 70D is looking good for video shooters but probably nothing that still shooters haven’t seen before, at least they look like they have solved the light loss problem at the same time, high ISO looks very good.
If it was me looking for a DSLR I still would go for the 60D rather than the 70D since the 60D is going for such a good price now ($599 at B&H). I haven't seen much added or changed in the 70D that I care much about and the 60D was the best DSLR I ever had.
bakubo wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:Do you have any Canon stuff left? Wondered if you'd give it a try at some point.
No, I don't have any Canon gear anymore, but if I was to get an APS-C DSLR it would be a 60D or maybe this 70D if it seems good after people have had a chance to use it. If FF then I would get a 6D.
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by classiccameras »

I have to aggree about the 10/12/16 MP cameras and lets not forget the 14 as well. My first DSLR was a Olympus E-510, it was 10mp on a 4/3 square format.
Excellent pictures and tac sharp edge to edge, some say because the pixel density is more evenly spread over the 4/3 format sensor. The big let down were dynamic range and the blown high lights and noisy shadows well it was a Panasonic sensor, not the earlier Kodak sensor on all models up to and including the 8mp E-500.
It was the Kodak CCD sensor that earned Olympus the best Jpegs reputation in the business. Amongst 4/3 fans, the E-500 is still highly regarded and some say the CMOS sensor was a bad move for Olympus.

I remember not that long ago when Nikon, said they thought 12mp was the best number for high picture quality with the lowest noise ratio and not much will be gained from going higher, well they were right then and possibly still are right, but things have moved on since that statement and 20/24 mp now seems the norm from Canikon and Sony. I'm not sure that this is the right approach they are taking and there must be better ways to improve IQ by other means, may be along the same lines as Fuji are doing.
From my point of view, there is quite a compelling case to revert back to some of these earlier lower pixel count cameras which are now going for peanuts.
I don't print off pictures only rarely and then its only a 10x8 max, but mostly smaller than that or just leave it on the PC to look at and pass round to my camera club and friends.
There is no escaping the fact that the latest crop of 20/24mp cameras from Canikon and Sony have got noiser.
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Re: Canon EOS 70D announced

Unread post by Heidfirst »

bfitzgerald wrote: but Canon screwed up big time by having the camera announced, and not being able to buy it for months on end. Last I checked Amazon had a pre order date in stock on 25th October, as of today that's over 2 months.

Way too long for any actual product to be available for sale.
Park Cameras are expecting stock next week.
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