KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

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bakubo
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KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby bakubo » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:30 am

I was browsing through some of my old photos in Lightroom today and the wonderful colors of so many of my old 7D jpegs really stand out. I had two 7D bodies. KM couldn't fix my first one so replaced it with a new one and finally after 5-6 trips to KM USA, KM Canada, and Sony. I ended up getting a full refund of my purchase price from Sony. Otherwise I sure liked the camera, but it was really unfortunate that my two copies had manufacturing defects. I sure notice a difference in the jpeg colors compared to my Canon and Sony jpegs over the years. I mostly shoot raw, but in the last couple of years have started shooting more jpegs again with my Olympus cameras. When I am traveling though I still mostly shoot raw. Anyone here still using a 7D?
Last edited by bakubo on Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby classiccameras » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:52 am

Interesting observation bakabo, I have an old Olympus E-510 and recently took it our of storage after a few years using Canon and Sony, the Sony's I still use but the Canon went ages ago. I have always been a J Peg person but was never that pleased with Sony Jpegs although the newer E mount 6000 are a slight improvement over previous E mounts and A mount cameras, I was amazed at the Jpeg quality from the 510, which I had ignored in the early days as I thought other camera brands would be better, NO, they are not, with the exception of Fuji, Olympus J Pegs are are the best. The 510 is fitted with a 10-mp Panasonic CMOS censor, The earlier E-500 were fitted with an 8-mp CCD Kodak sensor and some say the J Pegs were even better. I'm not so impressed with the newer M4T cameras fitted with the Sony sensor for Jpegs, they are still excellent but not as good IMHO as the earlier 4thirds bodies. I have seen a friends Jpegs from a 7D and they are equally impressive, might look around for a used one. It seems that colour has taken a back seat to a point on recent cameras in return for much better DR, noise, and high ISO performance, I'm still not convinced that these massive MP cameras are actually giving us better colour, may be its just subjective.

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby Marcell Nikolausz » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:44 am

I gave my KM 7D to my brother. He still use it and takes excellent photos with it. However, he is planning to buy a sony A77-II soon.
I liked the jpeg skin colors of the 7D a lot.

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby classiccameras » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:43 pm

I think the first Sony A-100 at 10-mp also gave excellent J-Pegs, but there on after, things started to deteriorate Jpeg wise and RAW was the best way forward with subsequent A mount cameras. I guess if I was going to stick with Jpegs and but a new camera, it would be Fuji mainly for the Jpegs and excellent optics.

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby the_hefay » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:46 pm

classiccameras wrote:I think the first Sony A-100 at 10-mp also gave excellent J-Pegs, but there on after, things started to deteriorate Jpeg wise and RAW was the best way forward with subsequent A mount cameras.


I have an A100, A580, and A77ii and I always liked the A100 jpg's the best. This is one of the reasons I only shoot RAW now.
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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby the_hefay » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:47 pm

And as to the original post, I've never used a 7D.
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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:39 pm

Still use the 5d's I have from time to time. No question my annoyances such as DR have been hugely improved in more recent bodies. I was never unhappy with the jpegs on the 5d (which are near enough the same as the 7d). Yes you get better results in raw but they were good overall for a balance between noise reduction and details.

I've learnt using other makers that they often go through stages. I felt the jpegs on the XE-1 were excellent and even X10 so I used them quite a bit for jpeg. More recent Fuji bodies have much worse jpeg engines not sure about the latest ones the XE-2 was waxy and quite horrible at high ISO. Pentax were quite good with NR off..again they fiddled around with their jpegs and got significantly worse. Nikon are fairly consistent with the lowest levels of NR and I like their jpegs. Sony are ho hum to me yes I'd use them if I had to more so at the lower ISO levels, I wouldn't at high ISO unless it was web shots or something I needed quickly..not a patch on the Nikon ones. Problem being too much NR and no option for very low levels of NR. Nikon are quite good at getting rid of most colour noise without smearing details much.

It was never a show stopper the jpegs just something I felt was odd. Surely a choice of NR is the most obvious way to go Sony never really seemed to work that out. Jpegs can be useful I don't subscribe to the "I shoot raw" thinking always raw..yes most of the time but not always. Sometimes you need results quick and jpegs do have a place.

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby classiccameras » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:23 am

Agree with most of what you say Barry, I think after Fuji dropped the EXR feature after the X-10, Jpegs got worse, and I totally disagree with DPReview when they said the X-20 and later the X-30 was sharper and a lot better than the X-10, it simply was not in my view and the Jpegs were not as pleasing. I think they more or less got it right with the X-10 and its still a favourite of mine.

DPreviews said about the Sony A6000, that Sony had finally got some decent Jpeg output with a good balance between noise, sharpening and IQ. Hmm, not sure Sony are quite there yet, although the Jpegs look better and more balanced than my old A57/37 ever did.
However, Sony have still not grasped how useful user noise adjustment would be. The two adjustments available are a feeble nod in that direction but its only effective at higher ISO.

Agree about Nikon, the old D80 and D90 were excellent Jpeg cameras and the newer entry/enthusiast level D series seem quite good.
Not sure about Canon Jpegs, they are a law unto themselves but looked quite nice the last time I looked, a bit too much default sharpening may be.

I still think Olympus hold the Jpeg crown, but after they started using the Sony sensor in the M43 cameras, in my view the Jpegs are still good but nor as good as the older Panasonic sensors in the E series, Poor DR and high light clipping being the main problem along with limited high ISO were the down side of the Panny sensor.

This is where the Sony sensor has improved the Olympus M43 cameras, DR and high lights. Olympus is one of those few cameras where user adjustable noise reduction does work and you can see the effects each setting has.

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:04 am

Well DPR made some major mistakes in their review of the X20 which I noticed very quickly when I used the camera:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x20/8

X20 has much narrower DR and only improves when using the high ISO ramping DR..even so it can't match the X10 nor anywhere near it. Colour loss in shadow areas and crushed blacks were also a problem. You can see the DR loss on their sample photos which they didn't spot. I shot both side by side and didn't see any big sharpness gain over the X10. Yes some improvements viewfinder and controls..what counts is IQ and it failed horribly. I sold mine very quickly after a few days testing jpegs had odd black spots on them very poor and the video quality was awful (X10 is fairly good for 1080p it walked all over the X20)

I stayed well away from the X30 (same sensor) and it seems Fuji have given up on premium compacts intent on pushing the X mount bodies. Been there tried them some nice ideas just not for me. X10 will remain in service as long as it works I like the camera. If I ever buy another premium compact I don't know I'm getting some good results from a Lumia 950 in fact far better than I expected..just no zoom. Jpegs are also pretty good

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby classiccameras » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:05 am

Any one still have a Fuji X-10 in their collection, don't sell it, keep it. The X-10 was one of those cameras that more or less got everything right re IQ and I never noticed the bright light globes that people kept talking about. Its Jpeg output is in my view so good RAW is not always necessary. The optics on the zoom lens are superb and I have yet to see better at that zoom range/price.

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:22 pm

I intend to keep the X10 I like the camera and have been happy with it. Wouldn't have paid the £500 initial asking price but I got a pretty good deal on it and for the outlay it punches out nice images and I like the tonality. Jpegs are good you can get a bit more DR off the raw files but I don't use them often. Quirks yes but overall one of the best Fuji have done. What a crying shame they have all but abandoned their enthusiast line up both compact and zoom very little on offer and they had almost nailed it with the X10.

I considered an RX but the prices are just too high latest one V version is £1000 just far too much for a 1" sensor. What has surprised me is how good the 950 phone is I only picked that up on another deal expected decent got quite taken aback with the lens quality and dynamic range. I can certainly see why people have abandoned the compacts if you have a phone with as good IQ as that. I just wish makers had upped their game long ago with better lenses and sensors rather than just bashing out plastic rubbish with poor sensors. Saying that there are a handful of phones I would rate as having "good" cameras a lot of the budget ones are a bit hit and miss. I'd still consider a premium compact at the right price performance ratio.

Sad about the X10 get something good never to be seen again. Seems to be how some makers operate

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby classiccameras » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:04 am

Well, if you don't mind size and weight, the Fuji X-S1 bridge has the same EXR system and processor as the X-10 and I'm looking right now for a good used one. It got praised at the time for IQ and an ecellent zoom lens with a high end build quality. Again Fuji dropped a winner.

I have noticed reading some reviews of various cameras over the years that quite often the new camera fell short on some areas of IQ to the previous model. In other words, its been a sort of 2 steps forward 1 step back all the time.

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:02 am

Has the X-S1 for a while quite liked the camera nice range lens was good (on second copy). Sensor is the same as the X10 so good results for the size and respectable in low light. I just found I wanted the lens speed more than the range (ie X10 faster shorter lens). Also as I have the 18-135mm puts you in the same ball park as the Fuji if you crop or use the auto crop (well fairly close not quite as wide). I just felt I didn't really need it but it was pretty good if you are into the top end or if that's your only camera a decent all rounder.

Both cameras had massive potential bit more sensor work maybe a slim down on the X-S1 a touch. Fuji just stopped doing them so really you either buy a Sony RX or a Panasonic they just left the building and gave up. Unlikely I'd get another Fuji love the colours and some great ideas but if you ain't got what I want I can't buy it. EXR was a great sensor far better than the X trans in the smaller form factor. Field of dreams..if you build it...

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby classiccameras » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:33 am

Yes, Fuji totally missed the boat after the X-S1 as they had ample opportunity to develop the format, but Sony and later Panasonic slipped in under the radar and stole their thunder, so all we have now are small sensor bridge cameras with ridiculous length under achieving zooms from Fuji, not my cup of tea at all. They seem far more interested in promoting their CSC's. I see now that the HS-50 uses a similar body to the old X-S1, but small sensor again, it gets a reasonably good review but slayed on high ISO noise. Unless I can find a half decent X-S1 I won't be buying another Fuji.

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Re: KM Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha 7D jpegs

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:12 am

I'll run the X10 until it drops after than not really sure what I'll do not a priority really. I do like the camera I just struggle to see what Fuji are thinking X mount isn't the same as a dedicated bridge or compact in any way shape or form. I think they over reacted to the downturn and canned any future models it's a little disappointing as the X10 was something fresh and new only to be a blip in the radar. Reason I abandoned X mount was great colours aside the fudged high ISO values and lack of IBIS were serious downers nothing there I couldn't do with an A mount camera at much less cost.


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