HVL-58AM and white balance.

[Contrast]

I just bought my first Sony flash. Up to this point I've been using a Canon flash and hot shoe adapter with flash in manual mode. I am a little confused by the Sony flash unit and the white balance feature. I am using an a350 .The manual reads:-
"The flash unit sends color information to an Alpha camera. Color temperature is automatically adjusted to standard white by an Alpha camera"

What it does not mention is whether setting any particular white balance mode (or custom setting with grey card) will override this. Experiments so far show setting AWB in camera gives a distinct pinkish image and flash WB is no better. I had previously found using "flash wb" in studio light situation gave an orange image. Oddly the Canon users had no issue with either daylight or flash wb settings in studio, I had to grey card the Bowens.

The Sony web site gives the following:-
"Which white balance setting should be use on the camera to enable the auto WB adjustment with color temperature info function on the flash?
Please set the camera to AWB (Auto White Balance) or flash in preset white balance" and " What is the auto WB adjustment with color temperature info function on the flash? The color temperature may change according to conditions (power level, etc.) at the time of flashing. Auto WB adjustment with color temperature info is a function that adjusts the white balance by communicating the color temperature information between the camera and flash unit."

I guess this answers it partly but also seems rather confusing. All I want to really have is a temperature for the flash that matches my chosen WB. And of course that isn't always the flash temperature. Again the manual doesn't give the temperature but Sony.com.au state it as approx 5500K. If this is the case Daylight or Flash WB setting should not give a pinkish image.

On another note I am a little dissapointed there is no PC sync socket. and Sony, WTH external battery pack $399 Australian??? It is only a box holding 6 AA with a cable.

Thoughts please

[Greg Beetham]

There is a few things I can think of offhand, mainly concerning exposure settings, ambient colour temperature/strength, ISO value, f-stop, distance, angle of coverage etc. It may be your particular settings combination has led too rather more ambient light (room lighting) getting into the mix in your photos than the other guys experienced in theirs, hard too say without exact values for all of the above.
I haven't had any WB problems with flash myself, (except I'm not overly fond of DRO when using flash, I think it messes with WB, could be my imagination though, but I don't bother with DRO anyway) I think as long as the exposure and ISO combo that is used makes sure that the dominant light in the photo will be supplied by the flash unit there shouldn't be any problem with WB.
Greg

[Contrast]

Thanks Greg.
For the studio settings the set ISO, aperture, shutter speed is usually done as a metered group setting with minimal ambient light, Main lights off, only modelling lights, and as "Canikon" isn't getting the WB issue at those settings it comes back to Sony. When this issue was picked up the lecturer had specified we all use "flash wb" (otherwise I would have grey carded anyway), and he went over my settings soon as the problem was found, they were correct. Regarding the tests I did at home yesterday, certainly ambient light could contribute, but at ISO 100 and 1/160 in an area I'd would otherwise use iso 800 1/30 I doubt it . But it is easy enough to repeat in a more controlled and scientific manner. I hadn't really considered DRO. I'd always been under the impression unless you get REALLY long shutter speed >2 sec it does nothing anyway. Is it just me that finds Sony a little scanty on detail? There is no depth to any explaination. I understand they need to keep manuals straightforward but they really need to give the techie stuff somewhere too.

[Greg Beetham]

I agree, I think it's almost universally recognized that the Sony camera User's Guide books are shockers. What you could try with your mystery WB issue is switch over to [Auto] and try a couple of flash shots in an unlit room in the house just too see if there is any difference, the [Auto] setting should revert any hidden forgotten setting back to standard, if the WB looks normal then there is a setting somewhere that's influencing the WB.
Greg

[WaltKnapp]

There is a few things I can think of offhand, mainly concerning exposure settings, ambient colour temperature/strength, ISO value, f-stop, distance, angle of coverage etc. It may be your particular settings combination has led too rather more ambient light (room lighting) getting into the mix in your photos than the other guys experienced in theirs, hard too say without exact values for all of the above.
I haven't had any WB problems with flash myself, (except I'm not overly fond of DRO when using flash, I think it messes with WB, could be my imagination though, but I don't bother with DRO anyway) I think as long as the exposure and ISO combo that is used makes sure that the dominant light in the photo will be supplied by the flash unit there shouldn't be any problem with WB.
Greg

I've had no issues with the 58 on the a700. And I've used it mixed with a variety of different WB presets and auto. I've also used it a fair amount as fill in HSS shots. Note I do have my a700s set always so flash comp is entirely separate from ambient comp. Most of the time I use A mode as well.

As far as DRO+ I find it a valuable tool used in conjunction with flash. Note I always use the numbered DRO+ settings which are the only true full DRO+, the rest are various simple curve adjusts or in the case of auto DRO+ unpredictable when it will apply.

I mix light levels freely between flash and ambient with no problems with WB. I generally set the WB settings as appropriate for the ambient part of the light.

Walt

[Contrast]

Thanks for the input all.

Easiest way I think is to post a picture.


This is as follows:- All in A mode, 0 exp shift. I'd say because of the subject without flash it is under exposed by "A mode" settings, had I chosen manual I'd have added to it..
Top left no flash, AWB, ISO100, 0.4s, F6.3
Bottom Left Flash (bounced), AWB ISO100, 1/125 F6.3
Top Right No Flash, Custom (4200K) ISO100, 0.4sec F6.3
Bottom Right Flash (bounced), Custom (6400k) ISO100, 1/125 F6.3

Several interesting things here, It is a magnolia painted wall so as expected "auto" has trouble without flash and tries to make it grey. Both grey carded choices get nearer to a magnolia colour. Ambient light level is not enough I feel to really influence flash. The Flash custom temp is way high at 6400 if the flash (as per Sony website info) is only 5500k. Bottom left with camera and flash making the colour choices as I had suspected is very pink. I tested DRO on/off -no difference.

[Greg Beetham]

Very interesting, which one is closest too reality? did you do any flash testing in [Auto] mode? I see you mentioning [A-mode], but that is just a set the f-stop mode, any hidden fotgotten settings will still be active. Only [Auto] mode reverts all the settings back too factory settings, unless you do a 'reset' that is.
Greg

[Contrast]

Very interesting, which one is closest too reality? did you do any flash testing in [Auto] mode? I see you mentioning [A-mode], but that is just a set the f-stop mode, any hidden fotgotten settings will still be active. Only [Auto] mode reverts all the settings back too factory settings, unless you do a 'reset' that is.
Greg

On the above shots probably custom with flash is nearest if a little overexposed.

I've tried full [auto] mode (shudders!) with AWB , and I'd say flash is still pink although less so, and "no flash" is grey. It is different conditions now, I've lost the light from the sunlight panels it being evening here and have fluoro instead. Still, results from full [Auto] is not really any different to the previous photo's. Even in the new light conditions custom WB with flash is best even on full [auto] mode.

[Greg Beetham]

It may be that not even [Auto] mode is doing the job, some settings can be still set in that mode as well, I just checked in my A100 'Read This First' and the only settings that are not settable in [Auto] are those in the Colour/DEC section. So I'm stumped at this point, you could have a look anyway in Colour/DEC and see if anything is not set too standard or zero, beyond that I don't know what too suggest, maybe DK might have an idea, if he's around.
Greg

ps. I guess you could try system reset, pretty drastic but it might do the job, have a look in the rear of your User's Guide for the items that will be reset.

[Contrast]

It may be that not even [Auto] mode is doing the job, some settings can be still set in that mode as well, I just checked in my A100 'Read This First' and the only settings that are not settable in [Auto] are those in the Colour/DEC section. So I'm stumped at this point, you could have a look anyway in Colour/DEC and see if anything is not set too standard or zero, beyond that I don't know what too suggest, maybe DK might have an idea, if he's around.
Greg

ps. I guess you could try system reset, pretty drastic but it might do the job, have a look in the rear of your User's Guide for the items that will be reset.

Not sure what you mean by colour/dec. That must be an a100 thing. Only options I have that go any further are creative style , which is [standard] and NR. I'm reluctant to reset as I'll lose my frame count. The lot is still under warranty so I'll check with Sony I think.

[Contrast]

I have been through the manual and the camera menu painstakingly yet again. The only place where I can find anything that may impact colour temperature is in creative style (which is normally [Standard] for me anyway. This is where colour saturation can be adjusted. Is this the colour/dec you were referring to? I think a change here would impact all the white balances though anyway, including custom. As it happens all these (contrast)(saturation)(sharpness) are at 0 anyway, I've never touched them.

I'll probably contact Sony early next week now, I have office hour commitments this week.

I can't believe the a350 was ever designed to take a flash unit, there is a real balance/weight/grip issue here...

[Greg Beetham]

Yes it sounds like the same thing, but looks like Sony have re-arranged things a little and now call it something else. It sounds like your settings are set too standard so your idea is best, show them the photos/colour repro problem and ask for it too be fixed if it's under warranty. It would be interesting if you could try the flash unit out on another Sony camera as well.
Greg
ps. I was rather astonished at the Shade +1 in my A700 as compared too the other two A-mount cameras I own (it was a shady location), the colour tone correction was over the top I thought, way too pinkish, should been less red and have included a tad of yellow as well maybe. Maybe they are employing colour blind people doing the calibrations.