Considering defecting.....

[Elisha]

The 7D is much sharper than the D90. Noise wise the 7D has a slight edge especially when processed with DPP and not in LR.
Could be the lens too. But the 7D is really good.
I have video of the baby at high ISO but trying to figure out how to edit it first!

[Javelin]

I Don't know what type of files it produces but you could just hit up MS for a free download of movie maker. it's simple and can do some basic editing. Doesn't the camera have any kind of video editor with it?

on the noise. I see on the babies right cheek there is a really nasty looking patch. the D90 shot looks a little underexposed but still the noise looks better than me. and I agre the diference in sharpness is likely due to the lens

[David Kilpatrick]

Well, I've been using the 7D for three days now. I will reserve comment until the 15-85mm lens arrives, the 18-135mm is underwhelming (even in aspects like close focus distance). I would not trade any Sony camera for this, mainly because of the impossible AF system on the Canon. Even the instruction manual carries warnings that if you use the 19-zone mode or the Zone mode (five sub-groups selected intelligently) you may be unable to focus on the spot you want. No kidding!

Today's experiments with using Manual Select focus point (single point) produced the usual impossible Canon metering response. The metering is thoroughly fixed in the 19-zone default mode, but focus is so unpredictable (and prefers foreground detail even when insignificant, as the manual warns) this mode is all but unusable for my work. In Manual Select mode, the metering is typical Canon - 100% linked to the focus spot. Not just biased, but converted to spot metering in effect. This produces some extreme exposure errors.

Here are some of the deliberate tests shot today - and please don't, in dPreview forum best fashion, tell me 'I should have done x'. My job is to test the camera, and if that means setting manual spot focus and seeing exactly what happens, I do it. Conclusion: you can not safely use automatic metering under any circumstances with manual select (spot or pinpoint mode) AF on the Canon 7D.

For the first shot, I targeted the darker duck and locked focus in single-shot mode before instantly recomposing and firing:

canon7D-AFondark.jpg (55.6 KiB) Viewed 4731 times

For the second shot, I quickly targeted the white duck and did exactly the same:

canon7D-AFonwhite.jpg (41.22 KiB) Viewed 4731 times

The lighter exposure was 1/60th, the darker one was 1/250th (and would have been even less if I had aimed the spot at the sunlit part of the duck, not just the main lighter part of the feathers which are actually in shade not full sun).

However, just how badly this system can react was shown by the shot taken a couple of frames later on exactly the same settings - this time no re-composing was involved at all, it was a grab shot:

canon7D-wildcardfifteenth.jpg (43.01 KiB) Viewed 4731 times

Nice effect maybe, but I really didn't need the camera to give me a 1/15th exposure in afternoon sunshine at ISO 200 and f/11 when 1/125th would have correct. The spot focus had clearly hit a part of the subject which was seen as even darker than the 1/60th example.

Another example of why I would not switch to the Canon 7D for anything is the method for switching between AF modes. The Default mode (19-point wide area, very prone to focus errors) can be changed of course in personal set-up, but Canon make it the default because for sales purposes it produces a dazzling display of multiple active focus points moving around when someone tries the camera in a shop.

Here's how you change (compare this to the KM Dynax 7D): first, you must press the shutter to activate the camera - focus mode can not be changed unless the camera thinks you are taking a picture. Now press the AF-mode button (five horizontal lines button). At this point nothing changes on the top LCD, because you MUST look through the viewfinder - all focus area/mode changes must be made while looking through the finder. Now press the new button marked M-Fn. This will step through the focus modes (19-point, Zone AF and single-point AF) in order. After reaching the required mode, press the AF-mode button again; this makes the front and rear control wheels, and the joypad, active; it also displays the 19 AF points, with a single one pre-highlighted in single point mode, and a cluster highighted in Zone mode. Use the control wheels or controller to move to the focus point you want.

Now return to shooting. You can not now move the focus point without pressing the AF-mode button again. If you want to select the useful 'pinpoint' focus mode (which restricts aF to within the centre of the actual marking on the screen selected), or prefer AF point expansion (this allows neighbouring sensors to extend the AF zone round the selected single manual point) these are Custom Function Menu options and must be set as an alternative to normal single focus point operation. You can of course save a customised setup to reduce the time taken getting things to work as you want.

The EOS 7D is a very well made camera, with fast action and some great design points (like an on-off switch just below the left hand top dial!) but it's typical Canon - which brings it the extreme volatility of auto exposure response linked to selective focus area modes, and the almost obstructive process involved in selecting a focus point manually.

Frankly, I'd rather have Hasselblad's latest philosophy - one central focus point which actually works! Or our A700 or A900, which can be used safely in any mode without wildcard exposures (some variation, but nothing like Canon) and without needing multiple warnings in the manual that wide area focusing will normally pick the closest thing it can find, not the biggest or best lit or most contrasty target.

David

[KevinBarrett]

Any defectors considering the Nikon D3s? I just spotted this goof on Amazon--you can carry your D3s in A550 clothing.

[Elisha]

Here's how you change (compare this to the KM Dynax 7D): first, you must press the shutter to activate the camera - focus mode can not be changed unless the camera thinks you are taking a picture. Now press the AF-mode button (five horizontal lines button). At this point nothing changes on the top LCD, because you MUST look through the viewfinder - all focus area/mode changes must be made while looking through the finder. Now press the new button marked M-Fn. This will step through the focus modes (19-point, Zone AF and single-point AF) in order. After reaching the required mode, press the AF-mode button again; this makes the front and rear control wheels, and the joypad, active; it also displays the 19 AF points, with a single one pre-highlighted in single point mode, and a cluster highighted in Zone mode. Use the control wheels or controller to move to the focus point you want.

Now return to shooting. You can not now move the focus point without pressing the AF-mode button again. If you want to select the useful 'pinpoint' focus mode (which restricts aF to within the centre of the actual marking on the screen selected), or prefer AF point expansion (this allows neighbouring sensors to extend the AF zone round the selected single manual point) these are Custom Function Menu options and must be set as an alternative to normal single focus point operation. You can of course save a customised setup to reduce the time taken getting things to work as you want.

David

Jebus you sure didn't read the manual then.
You do know there is a Q button on the left side right? It brings up a similar screen to the Quick Function on Sony and you just navigate with the joystick to the AF option and use the dial to change from one mode to another just like the Sony.
And to manually change the point selected when focusing, you just program the joystick in the custom button configuration and you can just move from one point to another just like with the a700. You can shift the focus point on the rear LCD or the VF.

And as for tracking and AF performance, it works great for me.

[Elisha]

I initially only switched for video but high ISO performance on the 7D is phenomenal.

ISO 12,800

[David Kilpatrick]

And to manually change the point selected when focusing, you just program the joystick in the custom button configuration and you can just move from one point to another just like with the a700. You can shift the focus point on the rear LCD or the VF.

And as for tracking and AF performance, it works great for me.

No you can't - unless the camera is already in 19-Point Manual Selection mode. Remember, I am not comparing this to a Sony, I'm comparing it to a Canon - in fact, to the 5D MkII which is sitting right next to it. The 5D MkII has a clear display of AF mode and selection on the top LCD screen, including selected point, and pressing the AF-point button gets you to this directly - one press. The 7D can not switch via any single button press (no matter whether you Register a point, or Assign a button) from 19-Point Auto Select mode (the factory default) to any other mode or single point.

What you describe only works if the camera is already in 19-Point Manual select mode.

No shot that you have shown here would tax any AF module. No foreground, no background, nothing but a large subject entirely covering the whole AF area. The 7D is an excellent camera but it's already causing big problems for Canon - vehemently denied by proud owners on dPreview (other than those who have returned the camera).

If you can demonstrate any way to dissociate Pinpoint or Single Point focus from the metering mode (that is, retain Evaluative Metering while also using a single focus point) please describe it me because so far, I can't find any custom function which will do so.

This is what the 19-Point Auto focus zone produced (three shots in a row, including a change to vertical composition) - this is not a fluke, the manual warns it will prefer closer subjects, and the focus zone is so large it will focus on stuff way off centre - and apparently ignore brighter lit subjects in favour of darker foregrounds: at ISO 12,800 also - but I have not made any attempt to sanitise the result:



And that is 12,800 reduced from the 18MP size, not a crop. That's what the noise level is actually like. And that is a snap which no other DSLR I know of, using wide area focus, would ever get so seriously wrong. People are saying the 7D has focus errors with lenses. What they are doing is trying to use a wider angle lens on a room or a landscape; the 7D will focus on the foreground in front of your feet every time, not the middle of the shot.

There is a setting which enables tracking to ignore foregrounds once locked on, but none to change the behaviour of the AF on static subjects. The camera is built to use long lenses and track moving subjects, assuming a flat subject plane. It falls down totally on a deep wide-angle focus plane, crowd scenes, and many other subjects. Example: in 19-Point Auto Select mode (aka wide area focus) it won't focus through a window if there is a glazing bar; it won't focus through a wire fence on a more distant subject.

I've got some excellent shots with the 7D and I now have the 15-85mm and also a Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 (but lousy weather today) for some more. Your baby shots are great, but go beyond this and think in terms of landscape or photojournalism. For these I'd rather have a 50D or even a 500D any time. I have to buy a new Canon, I'm selling my 400D as this is now too old. It won't be a 7D.

David

[Elisha]

Changing the AF mode is a dual button function......however changing AF points within an AF mode is a single button thing and can be done with the joystick while still looking into the VF like the a700 if you go to C.FnIV and set the joystick (Multi-controller) to AF point direct selection.
And I find Evaluative metering at any single AF point to be pretty good.
The only time I use Auto 19 AF point is in AI-Servo to track the movement of a subject.
For static objects I just use the Manual AF selection.

Here's a good link to how each AF mode should be used. I'm not sure how different it is to the manual as I have not read the manual regarding the AF modes yet.
http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller ... leTypeID=5

[David Kilpatrick]

Thanks Elisha - but all that is clearly explained in the manual, and works exactly as I have said. My issue with the 7D is that the most accurate metering mode - uncannily accurate - is Evaluative with the auto selection of 19-point focus. It will resist almost any kind of lighting problem and produce a good exposure. I want to have this metering ALL the time no matter what focus mode I use. But the moment you move off 19-point auto, you get what is in effect focus point linked spot metering.

The second issue is actually explained (or concealed, depending on how you read it) in the page you refer to. Getting from automatic wide zone to single point spot focus, and vice versa, has always been almost as quick with Canon in the past as it is with Nikon or Sony. They have changed this so you must either use menus (something Sony has done, too) or multiple button presses. The one critical function which a camera like this needs is a one-touch activation of spot focus no matter what other mode you may be in - even if it's just centre spot focus.

With the 5D MkII, you simply set the Custom Function III no3 (AF Drive - Multi Point Selection) to 'Controller Direct' and if you are in any focus mode, pressing the controller in (centre) will immediately switch you to spot focus on the central point. Pushing it in any direction will select the point in that direction, and it's pretty positive too, easy to hit the right point.

Because there are 19 points in the 7D array, this simplicity is impossible - but they could have allowed the CENTRAL point still to be accessed, whatever mode you are in. I don't know why they have not provided this. You can only get a direct centre spot selection in 19-point manual mode. The same action in Zone mode gets you the central zone (that's fairly useful); in fully auto mode, it does nothing. There's no quick (i.e. 1/4 second) real-time fix if the auto mode will not lock on to your target.

If you find anything which contradicts this let me know. I have until the end of this week to prepare my review of the camera for the British Journal. It will not be unfavourable (far from it) but they employ me because I spot things with cameras which other reviewers miss - and which later on, become hot topics. I get there first. I can miss things, and I actually seek out owners of the cameras I am reviewing and try to get feedback.

David

[Elisha]

Thanks Elisha - but all that is clearly explained in the manual, and works exactly as I have said. My issue with the 7D is that the most accurate metering mode - uncannily accurate - is Evaluative with the auto selection of 19-point focus. It will resist almost any kind of lighting problem and produce a good exposure. I want to have this metering ALL the time no matter what focus mode I use. But the moment you move off 19-point auto, you get what is in effect focus point linked spot metering.

The second issue is actually explained (or concealed, depending on how you read it) in the page you refer to. Getting from automatic wide zone to single point spot focus, and vice versa, has always been almost as quick with Canon in the past as it is with Nikon or Sony. They have changed this so you must either use menus (something Sony has done, too) or multiple button presses. The one critical function which a camera like this needs is a one-touch activation of spot focus no matter what other mode you may be in - even if it's just centre spot focus.

With the 5D MkII, you simply set the Custom Function III no3 (AF Drive - Multi Point Selection) to 'Controller Direct' and if you are in any focus mode, pressing the controller in (centre) will immediately switch you to spot focus on the central point. Pushing it in any direction will select the point in that direction, and it's pretty positive too, easy to hit the right point.

David

The focus point linked spot metering is a feature that Canon actually talks about in one of their presentation videos and I find it useful because that way whatever I focus on is not over exposed or under exposed regardless of where the focus point is on the frame. To keep it from over exposing the highlights, I just turn of Highlight Priority and that tames the highlights a little.

As for you quick switch to single point spot focus, I reprogrammed the DOF Preview button to do just that. It acts as my center press joystick like on the a700 immediately giving me a center spot focus.

Let me know if I'm following you here.

[David Kilpatrick]

But I don't want to sacrifice the D-o-F preview button - which is in the wrong place anyway as my hand is not there most of the time when shooting! If I assign it to another function I lose D-o-F preview (for what it's worth). But the button position is more of an objection to that 'solution' (kludge).

I realise you can also assign the lens button (normally Focus Hold) to do this as well - but the lenses I am using don't have buttons...

The one button which should be assignable to Registered AF Function is the centre press of the controller, or maybe the AF-mode button (which no longer works as an AF-mode button within also using the M-Fn button, unlike previous Canon models), or maybe the star button. But you can't assign Registered AF function to anything except the D-o-F or the Lens Button.

Same way, I want the spirit level function to be accessible - and that means the M-Fn button is asigned to it, and nothing else.

I also appreciate that it is possible to create a variety of alternative setups and save them as C1, C2, C3 for rapid access on the shutter dial. I've worked with Canons for some time.

The real issue with the 7D is that a simple function which should not need any customisation, or the sacrifice of some dedicated button by changing its function, has been omitted. It can be corrected in firmware in future and by highlighting the problem, I may be able to get it fixed faster.

David

[David Kilpatrick]

Just to indicate the difference - set wide area AF on the A900. Press the centre of the multiway controller (almost identical to Canon). Camera immediately switches to spot AF - not only that, the press activates autofocus as well, and refocuses the camera using the centre point. Set to Local (=Manual Select) and the same applies. Set it to spot and it's on the centre anyway so the function has no effect.

The point is that with the A900, and many other cameras, no matter what preferences you have set, no matter what mode you are in - press that centre controller during shooting and you switch instantly to refocus using spot AF. No menus, no multiple presses, no assigning functions to obscure buttons which are intended to do something else.

David

[Elisha]

The center press joystick for spot AF would be nice but that is all minor to me as I always used Local AF on my a700 and manually picked the points I wanted. The only time I used center point AF was when I was in low light situations and wanted AF acquisition to be as fast as possible.
I never used Wide Area because I didn't want the camera picking the AF points for me.
The equivalent to Wide Area on the 7D is Auto 19 point with One Shot. Auto 19 point with AI Servo should only be used if the subject is moving across the frame.
I prefer Assisted Focus points instead as they work out much better for me.

My biggest pet peeve is the lack of the thumb dial. It takes a little getting used to the ferris wheel on the Canon. Also it wouldn't have killed them to include a separate AF Assist LED rather than use the PUF for it.

[David Kilpatrick]

Although | find myself sometimes looking for the thumb dial on Canons, I'm used enough to them to accept the big wheel as 'normal' - you will get used to it. The 7D has the on-off switch in the right position at last!

It amuses me that for years, Canon users have criticised the Minolta/Sony on-off switch position when they had one of the strangest of all, below the big wheel. Now that the 7D finally has a properly placed on-off the subject is never mentioned

David

[bakubo]

When I had the Canon 300D a few years ago it was very annoying that it would essentially turn the AF sensor location into a spot meter. Much of the time the AF location was not a middle tone so the camera would often underexpose or overexpose depending on what the tone was under the AF point.

My recollection is that the 30D I got later did the same thing, but it wasn't really a problem because I used CF4 to delink AF from the shutter button. Instead I used the * button on the back. This meant that metering and AF were also delinked so no more problem. By the way, I do the same with the A700.