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 Post subject: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:34 pm 
Emperor of a Minor Galaxy
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Soon, I'll be making my decision on which ultra-wide to purchase. I need this lens for building shots where the buildings are too close to the street to get clean shots w/o and ultrawide, due to power lines, etc. in the way. No, I don't want to photoshop them out, I want to catch the interesting intricacies of the brick/stonework on them.

My candidates are Sigma 8-16, Tokina 11-16, Tammy 10-24 or Siggy 10-20. Are there others? I'll be using the lens first on my 350 then later on the 580, when I get it!

The priceyest of the bunch is the Sig 8-16, at $700, so I don't see a problem cost-wise, unless CZ suddenly offers a 10-20!

This lens will be used mostly outdoors, and on a tripod, so being a 2.8 isn't too much of a factor, either.

Suggestions, anyone? Pros and cons of each?

Thanks,
Dusty


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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:03 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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There is also the Sony 11-18mm f4.5-5.6. I just checked and it is expensive now. I bought a brand new, in box one in 2008 at Best Buy for $399 and a brand new, in box HVL-F36AM for $59 when they were getting rid of their Sony cameras products. I missed getting one of the A700 bodies for $599 though. I had already bought one of those for $1230.

There are 2 versions of the Sigma 10-20mm. The older one is f4-5.6 and I have that one in Canon mount (coincidentally I just got home after being out with just this lens and taking some photos). You can buy it new and it is a lot less than the Sony 11-18mm.

I find that for an UWA I don't care much about a fast aperture since for the types of photos I take with them I am often stopping down to at least f5.6, but usually f8 or so.

By the way, AF doesn't work so well with these, especially at the wider end. I usually just zone focus. As an example, you can MF to 3 feet, set the aperture to f6.3 or f7.1 and everything from about 1.5 feet to infinity is in focus. You need to check a dof calculator to get the proper figures because I am just going by memory. :) Also, I have found that if you zoom to maximum fl, AF, and then zoom back to the fl you want that the focus is usually good.

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Last edited by bakubo on Fri May 27, 2011 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:26 pm 
Tower of Babel
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Hi Dusty, DK wrote a review of the Tokina 11-16 here which might help. http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2010/10/28/tokina-11-16mm-f2-8-sd-if-dx/#more-1896. I seem to remember something about the Sigma8-16 as well but I can't find it. Something about it being the APS-C version of the 12-24 FF, and therefore pretty good. I think the Sigma has a bulbous front element which makes using filters tricky. For me it would be between the Tokina and the Sigma - the final decision based on whether fov or filter use was most important.

Henry - I will try that zoom in and out tip on my Tamron 11-18. I also normally manual focus as I don't find AF reliable. I wonder if this is why some of these lenses get such a bad rep over softness?

By coincedence just noticed that Dixons have the Sony 11-18 for £399 in the UK which is probably the cheapest price it has ever come down to here.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:51 pm 
Minister with Portfolio
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Dusty wrote:
My candidates are Sigma 8-16, Tokina 11-16, Tammy 10-24 or Siggy 10-20. Are there others? I'll be using the lens first on my 350 then later on the 580, when I get it!

I understand the Tokina is quite good. I tried the other lenses (and the Tamron 11-18) on FF and didn't like them that much -at that time, the Tokina was not available. I tried the Sigma 12-24 and decided to stick with the Minolta 17-35 f2.8-4

Dusty wrote:
This lens will be used mostly outdoors, and on a tripod, so being a 2.8 isn't too much of a factor, either.

As Henry already said, you'll have to use the lens at f5.6 or higher because sharpness, etc.
Dusty wrote:
Suggestions, anyone? Pros and cons of each?

If you use Lightroom or the proper Photoshop, get a lens that have a lens Profile available, that will make your life easier. Most of the Sigmas and Tamrons are by default. But others can be found in the Adobe labs forum. I got the profile for the Minolta 24-85 from DK by example...

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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:12 am 
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pakodominguez wrote:
As Henry already said, you'll have to use the lens at f5.6 or higher because sharpness, etc.


Actually, I use mine at f5.6 or smaller because with this sort of lens I generally want lots of dof.

pakodominguez wrote:
If you use Lightroom or the proper Photoshop, get a lens that have a lens Profile available, that will make your life easier. Most of the Sigmas and Tamrons are by default. But others can be found in the Adobe labs forum. I got the profile for the Minolta 24-85 from DK by example...


PTLens has profiles for both of my UWAs. Probably has profiles for the others too. I do not correct distortion on every shot though because UWAs often look better with distortion. When you correct it and if people are near the edge the "corrected" image often makes them and their heads elongated. I have noticed shots from various expensive 16-35mm FF lenses in magazines, etc. that even though they probably have less distortion than these less expensive lenses the PJ photos often look weird because of elongated heads. I suspect that for an UWA they are sometimes designed specifically to have distortion because for some types of photos the result is more natural than when there is less distortion. It is a case where the more expensive, "better" lens sometimes produces worse results.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:25 pm 
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If you can stand a manual prime, look at the Samyang 8mm. It's distributed under a dozen names (mine is a Rokinon). Very good lens.


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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:49 pm 
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Argonaut wrote:
If you can stand a manual prime, look at the Samyang 8mm. It's distributed under a dozen names (mine is a Rokinon). Very good lens.


I think this lens is a fisheye. Is that correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:43 am 
Oligarch

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Quote:
I think this lens is a fisheye. Is that correct?


Yes it is. There's a plugin (Fisheye Hemi) that has been recommended but I have not tried. I suppose a lens profile for Lightroom might work too, but again, no experience. For landscapes, centering the horizon lowers the noticeable distortion a lot.

I bought it to do some near/far type photos. For narrow city streets I prefer a panorama shot - easier to control and correct the perspective, if a bit harder to get the pan right.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:13 pm 
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Dusty

I can say I have tested and owned the Tamron 11-18, Minolta 11-18 and now own the Tokina 11-16. The Tokina is tack sharp when focused close up with a large spread behind @ F8 on a tripod. It is really nice @ 2.8 too! I would never part with it now. I love mine. I have done after dark shots long exposures and even fireworks last year directly under the Washington Monument in DC over the forth and it performed great. I have even used a homemade variable filter with it and got no distortion. It is my number one choice for wide angle. My cousin shoots with a 8mm and would take tokina 11-16 anyday over the fisheye anyday.

Here are some samples-

"Wolf Creek" is with the variable filter 3" exposure or so F9
"Field" is hand held focused close with I imagine F7-9 ( Ignore the filter markings. I forgot my Graduated filter holder so I was hand holding it so the edges showed up.
"The Balloons" are hand held @ 2.8

Hope this helps :D

Motor


Attachments:
wolf creek.jpg
wolf creek.jpg [ 200.47 KiB | Viewed 1074 times ]
fields.jpg
fields.jpg [ 148.75 KiB | Viewed 1074 times ]
balloons.jpg
balloons.jpg [ 139.37 KiB | Viewed 1074 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:45 pm 
Heirophant

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Here is my favorite example of the Tokina 11-16 on a tripod in the smokey Mts.


Here is also a post about what I wrote last summer about the Tokina with the pros and cons on the ( Tokina 11-16 vs Tamron 11-18)


Hello All,

I am half way through my 6 week trip of the Eastern US coastal trip. I ended up selling my Tamron 11-18mm for $375 and put up $150 more for the new Tokina 11-16 2.8. I can't post any pictures right now but let me tell you.......This lens is OUTSTANDING It is very sharp! The hood and caps are of very high quality. The only negative point is the auto clutch switching AF to MF on the lens doesn't work. I called the company and they comfirmed it, only the body can switch between AF and MF on the sony model. Not really a big deal with me though for the A700 switches really easy. @ F8 on the tripod in Washington DC @ 9:30 at night the lens is wonderful. I shot fireworks for the 4th of July, night monuments and also used it at Gettysburg. I shot a great hot air ballon night glow with it and again tack sharp with very little distortion. It is perfect from 2.8-F16. I have several cousins that professionally shoot for the DC Post, CNN/ Fox news and C-Span and all three couldn't believe how this lens performed. One shoots the 10-20 sig and He states "IT'S GONE!" after seeing the performance of this lens. Just wanted everyone to know that lens for sony is for REAL! Very Impressive! I am not bad mouthing the tamron or sony 11-18 but this thing blows the 2 out of the water. For me it was just a small cash in. But to buy new I know it is expensive but well worth the money. Again I am NOT saying this in a negative manner I just want everyone to know this lens is for real since it is hard to get your hands on. I believe both Adorama and B&H are sold out and were expecting new stock if they haven't got them yet. I will post in 3 weeks after I get home and get to look @ all 6000 picts

I only have a small net book and TV screen. Just happend that The campground I am @ has internet access!

Till then.............

Motor!


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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:45 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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motor, please post some of your UWA photos in the current UWA photo thread:

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5357

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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:05 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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I thought this was interesting to update things. Wonder what Dusty got?
Anyway from what I see the Tokina 11-16mm is no longer being made for A mount.

Sony continue to plug along with the 11-18mm for some reason (it was ok at 6mp but it's struggling a bit nowadays)

I've heard good things about the recent Sigma UWA's (both the FF one and the crop 10-20mm)
I've yet to try a Tamron 10-24mm, noted it got better reviews than the 11-18mm, but seems to get so so reviews online...but strangely users seem to be rating it quite highly for some reason.

UWA choices are tricky at the best of times.


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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:52 pm 
Emperor of a Minor Galaxy
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Barry, I never bought one. Finances are one of the reasons, I'm still not whole after the tornado, and then there's the sense that I may be switching mount, since I'm a die-hard OVF man.

Did I say sense? That's wrong. I'll probably invest in a D610 if we ever get my Dad's property ready to sell and then get it sold. Not a fan of the Canon, the Pentax, which I like, is just too close to falling off a cliff, and no one else makes anything with an OVF and a whole system.

I'm sure I'll post my Disneyworld pics here when I get it, since that's where the bulk of the $$ I get will go - taking the kids on their dream vacation! Not a lot of money in a house when it has to be split 8 ways.

Dusty

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 Post subject: Re: Ultrawide choices
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:56 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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Sorry to hear that Dusty.
Well I hope they've ironed out their issues. I don't feel I can look at Pentax or Nikon again and I took a bit of a bath on re-sale on some items too switching mounts twice.
So I'm stuck with A mount at the moment.

I've no idea where Sony are going, mind you I've had doubts since day one. New CEO or not I'm not convinced Sony are on the right path.
I'd probably look at Canon in the future, there are no other options as I've scrubbed Pentax/Nikon. Unless you try an ILC system, and not much grabs me there either, though Fuji is somewhat interesting, it's not enough to want to sell off my A mount stuff.

Still you could bash around for a bit with second hand OVF A mount bodies, that's one option. If only Sony actually got off their ego trip and listened to their users we might have a proper choice for everyone.


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