New Olympus E-M1 body for 4/3 and m4/3 lenses

[bakubo]

Barry, it is unfortunate that camera gear is so expensive in the UK. I can't really recommend emigrating to the U.S. just to get cheaper prices though. From what I can tell the U.K. seems to be a pretty good place to live and the whole immigration process is a hassle, can be difficult, and takes years. You might consider the occasional trip to the States though if you find something of sufficiently good price to make the trip worthwhile. These days places like B&H will probably ship to the U.K. and whatever taxes you have to pay may still make it worthwhile. Company warranties are always an issue though. I think it is possible to buy third party warranties sometimes so that might be an option for you.

Why are the prices so high in the U.K.? Taxes/import duties may be part of it. Also, maybe the local subsidiaries set the local prices high. I suppose some or most of the camera company subsidiaries are headed by a Brit so the prices in the U.K. are probably most affected by Brit politicians, Brit bureaucrats, and Brit camera company employees. I don't know if the Japanese headquarters set U.K. prices. Anyone know?

[bfitzgerald]

I Do know a few people who have "cough" gone on holiday and picked up something like a decent lens and posted the box back to avoid getting hit with duty
It's not just that prices are high, but they seem even worse with some makers. Even high prices aside I do think Olympus is one of the worst offenders here, not alone by any means, but probably top of the list of price gouging in Europe. Sony are not great, but not the worst. And Pentax just seem to be on one big price increase across the board lenses wise.

There are a few ways around this, if you go grey market some sellers cover any import duty or costs.

[Greg Beetham]

I decided to see if there was a way of consulting the UK tax system to see what kinds of tax might apply to camera equipment imported into the UK. I found out mainly why bureaucracies exist, it’s to make finding out anything as incomprehensible as possible.
If you suspected that the tax system might be bigger than Ben Hur then you were on the right track, only it’s much bigger than that.
There are Tariffs, Excise, Import Duty and VAT and there are rules for EU member’s vs non EU member countries and on top of that there is a special arrangements for a whole bunch of other countries where a different scale applies to different types of products, from 0% through to 85%.
You can’t just look up ‘importing camera equipment into the UK’ and get a concise result, that’s too easy, you get a result that is designed to get you bogged down in a vast sea of convoluted mumbo jumbo whereupon you end up doing what I did…give up. Example here http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPort ... t#P99_7246
I still strongly suspect that the price difference between the US and the UK lie at the feet of government imposed taxes and charges, I doubt camera companies would purposely handicap themselves in the market by jacking their prices needlessly.
They would want to get as much as the market will bear of course, and they can’t sell at a loss either, so the price would be one that’s sustainable for them and the add on costs would be transport costs, dealer and agent’s margins, and include applicable government charges.
I doubt also the margins would be a lot different in the UK vs the US and the transport costs would be similar-ish one would think so that leaves only one thing, government add on charges of various types.
I was wondering about the used market too, how much tax etc. might apply there, I know there has to be a declaration of value affixed to any ‘gift’ so maybe it’s the same for second hand items as well.
Some companies have a special number they can fix on the outside of shipments that eases the pathway through all the tax hurdles, but I don’t know the details.
Also there is a special deal with South Korea as far as Tariffs go now too, I don’t know if they have an advantage compared to say Japan or China, but reading between the lines it seems so.
Greg

Ps you can escape most of the taxes, if not all like Barry said if you are on holiday and post an item (except alcohol and tobacco) back to yourself but the sticking point is you have to declare that you already owned it in the UK before you left. There is a possibility of having things seized for false declarations and then to get them back you have to ‘cough up’ big time.

[classiccameras]

Apart from a second hand piece of kit, I do most of my buying on line, either from companies such as Simply Electronics which is Hong Kong based or from other countries within the EU.
The EU is a free trade area and the only difference is each countries tax. So a purchase from Holland I pay the Dutch VAT and not British VAT.
Ireland is one of the most expensive countries in Europe and Luxembourg about the cheapest, However, now Poland and the Czech republic are members of the EU, luxury goods such as cameras, cigs etc are much cheaper, may be a tad cheaper than far East prices.
If I wanted to bring alcohol or cigarettes back to the UK from another EU country, I'm allowed up to 90 litres of wine and 800 cigs. provided you can prove they are for personal consumption.
It is a complicated subject that I don't know too much about but there are some 'rip offs' going on, no adoubt about it.

[bakubo]

From what everyone is saying it does appear that if you think your prices are too high then it is mostly caused by the people you elect to political office in the U.K. and the policies you want them to institute. You can check, but I suspect that the camera company subsidiaries in the U.K. are mostly made up of British employees and they probably set the prices for their market based on their determination of what makes good business sense. It is easy and maybe more comfortable to blame high prices on outsiders, but unless someone has discovered something to the contrary it appears to me that you are doing it to yourselves so don't really have anyone else to be upset with. I suggest just taking a deep breath and being thankful for what you get in return for the high taxes. Buy your camera gear when you can get the money together knowing that the high price is being paid for a good cause.

[bakubo]

I see that MR has updated his earlier rolling report on the E-M1 with 3 new updates plus a conclusion since I first posted this a few days ago.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/revie ... port.shtml

[bakubo]

What they don’t test is accuracy and action follow focus/predictive AF, that kind of performance really needs to be tested as well as it’s one of the justifications for buying DSLR’s.

Someone posted this link today that has some informal testing of E-M1 follow focus/predictive AF with 4/3 and m4/3 lenses:

http://www.damianmcgillicuddy.com/journ ... pabilities

[Greg Beetham]

Someone posted this link today that has some informal testing of E-M1 follow focus/predictive AF with 4/3 and m4/3 lenses:

http://www.damianmcgillicuddy.com/journ ... pabilities

It looks like it does produce the goods, even above expectations, so what were all those on the M4/3rd forum complaining about? Thread after thread whining (I didn’t read them all, only a couple of posts here and there) about Olympus, boy they sure know how to complain.
I suppose the format has an inbuilt advantage in DOF so that would help to some extent but the ISO8000 out of camera jpeg action shots are pretty good, even the whiners would have to admit that one would think.
Greg

[classiccameras]

Greg

I don't think its the cameras performance thats in question with these whiners, its the body size and not a dedicated 4/3 mount. Many of the bigger pro end Zuiko tele lenses are going to be out of balance on a tiny body and a bit of a handful to hold. Many were hoping for another 4/3 body with the 16mp Sony sensor. When the 4/3 adaptor deal ends soon they will have to pay over £200 for it. I think thats around the price but correct me if i'm wrong. Thats how I read their complaints plus the usual anti EVF from a few, but we have that with some Sony users as well.
I have to say that most posts on the 4/3 forum are totally in favour of the new EM-1 and so far it has impressed many people, but not for me, its too small, too expensive and has so many functions I would never use, plus I prefer APS-C. I can see the Olympus strategy, their 4/3 system had a very uncertain future and in effect it was dead in the water the day it was launched and they only had one escape route, M/4/3.

[Greg Beetham]

Ah I get it now to a great extent. (not hugely familiar with 4/3rd gear)
It might be something to do with sensor availability too, the current available sensors might need redesigning for DSLR application now, Oly might even have trouble justifying the expense of making a sensor just for that application with the expected sales that might accrue from doing so.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

I think most of the complaints are the normal 4/3 users, who (and they have a point) have basically been abandoned by Olympus or rather have no new DSLR body.
This also spills across to A mount users who are looking at what has happened here and have that shaky feeling about NEX bodies with adaptors (I personally don't think A mount will be dropped) but all the new and rumours is NEX lenses and bodies.

Once the FF NEX comes out with a price that scares people and some overpriced Zeiss glass, the dust will settle and people will see the FF NEX isn't going to be any kind of mass market product, then we can get back to forgetting about it mostly

I predicted from day 1 that 4/3 would not be able to compete against APS-C DSLR's and that has been played out over time. The lenses were not really any smaller, most of the bodies were not really that small either (bar the E620) and there was no cost reason to look at it either 4/3 lenses and bodies were no cheaper than APS-C ones. And trying to sell a smaller sensor (yes it's not that small but it's def smaller than APS-C) was not going to ever be that easy.

Micro 4/3 is probably a better place for Olympus and Pannie as they do have smaller bodies, they do have smaller lenses. Panasonic are quite aggressive with the lower priced bodies ie selling them at fairly low prices. Olympus seem keen to charge more for their offerings for some reason. I'm sure micro 4/3 is going to do ok, but remember those 4/3 die hards who told us all those repetitive arguments such as...

- 4/3 is FULL FRAME (sigh)
- Yes you can get shallow DOF with 4/3 see attached pic!
- Designed for digital telecentric lens designs were better (this completely flew out the window with micro 4/3 obviously)

Now we get the odd high end Canon FF user confessing on a DPR post... who has given up their big bulky bodies, dumped all their top end L glass and flogged their 5d MkIII and will be buying an EM-1 body The sensor complaints seem to have died down now, but we'll see if Oly are faking the high ISO numbers like they did on the EM-5

My reason for not really being grabbed by micro 4/3 is simple really
- I'm not crazy about the 4/3 aspect ratio (it's ok but for scenic 3:2 is preferable to me)
- Yes I get better DOF control with APS-C (4/3 is 2 stops less than FF, APS-C is one stop roughly)
- I hate with a passion focus by wire, this is a retrograde step that has sadly infected all the ILC systems and it's a huge turn off

Sony would do well to look at micro 4/3, it's done ok, but has not had any impact on normal DSLR's for one simple reason. Different products for different needs. That's why I don't take very seriously these super FF NEX rumours. If Sony sold a FF NEX for £1000 it might have a major impact, it's quite unlikely they will get anywhere near that price point.

ILC systems don't have the broad appeal many said they would have. I think they suit some people. Glad folks have a choice though.
So we can put Henry down for an EM-1 then?

[bakubo]

- I hate with a passion focus by wire, this is a retrograde step that has sadly infected all the ILC systems and it's a huge turn off

Hey, everyone! I think this almost guarantees that Barry is going to get an m4/3! He hated with a passion EVFs and then came back to Sony after going to Pentax and then to Nikon and bought a Sony A57 with an EVF. I am sure now that Barry will be getting an m4/3!

So we can put Henry down for an EM-1 then?

Read what I wrote before in this thread.

[bakubo]

Damn you make a strong argument for buying at home there Henry, $1299 vs $2081 is certainly a strong inducement.
I’m sure almost zero Americans would think that £1 Stirling is the same value as $1 US dollar.
$1299 USD equals £811.41 at today’s rates, that’s roughly what they should be paying in the UK if all else is equal.
They seriously get reamed over there in the UK it seems, I bet it’s mostly import duty and taxes that’s making up the difference, taxes on top of taxes.

I just read that the E-M1 in the U.K. is £1299, but that includes the 4/3 adapter, battery grip, and extra battery. These items alone are priced at about £400, I think, so the E-M1 body works out to about £899.

[Greg Beetham]

I just read that the E-M1 in the U.K. is £1299, but that includes the 4/3 adapter, battery grip, and extra battery. These items alone are priced at about £400, I think, so the E-M1 body works out to about £899.

Well that would be good H if it were true, it would bring the price of the camera more into line, but according to this http://www.techradar.com/news/photograp ... ra-1179273 they say the price is going to be £1299 just for the body.
I could only find one place from my location that had an idea of what the price was going to be in the UK, searches looking for prices tend to default to one’s location or origin of inquiry, so the result of my search wanted to give me prices locally in the main. One result isn’t really a sure thing either, not at this early stage I think, we'll probably have to wait and see results from more sources to get more dependable results.
Greg

[Greg Beetham]

Oops I just noticed there are a couple of sweeteners mentioned in the article after all, (grip and adaptor) with an expiry date, so presumably it will revert back to just the body for that much after the intro deal expires.
Greg