Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

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Re: Canon G15: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bakubo » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:35 pm

Greg Beetham wrote:Who had had the few beers Henry? the subjects or the photographer? :lol: pretty decent candids from a p&s (even if a top class p&s) just the same.


I assure you, beer was drank by everybody. :lol: In the second photo you can see the server bringing more beers. :)

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Re: Canon G15: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bakubo » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:55 pm

Just an update. I bought a Canon G16 at Yodobashi a couple of days ago to replace my G15. I have had the G15 for 1.5 years.

I have other cameras (Canon S95, Olympus and Panasonic m4/3, Sony DSLRs) that I also use, but the G15 is one I enjoy carrying around with me in Japan when I don't have a specific intent to just be out taking photos. I use it on the street a lot and while not ideal it is usually adequate while being small and light enough to carry often. The OVF is not the best, but for street stuff it is also adequate and much better than having only an LCD. I also use the LCD especially when there is time and I want to see exact framing though.

I was waiting until Photokina to see what new came along. The Panasonic LX100 and Canon G7X are both interesting, but each has downsides for me that outweigh the advantages compared to the G15. The Sony RX100III was also considered. Of course, Sony and Panasonic are both a no go for purchase in Japan. Anyway, I have looked at everything and weighed the advantages and disadvantages for the way I would use it and have for now rejected all of them. Price is something else I considered. I paid about $385 for my G15 here in Japan and the G16 cost me $360. The G7X is about $590 here. I will probably sell my G15 and get around $200 for it.

I had been thinking for awhile that I might end up getting a G16 since the AF has got a fairly good speed increase and the new BSI sensor is just a bit better than the one in the G15. Those were 2 areas that I was hoping for some improvement of the G15.

I expect to use this G16 for awhile and shall wait and see what comes out in the next few months. Maybe the G17 will have a 1" sensor and better VF, maybe an EVF, while keeping much of the other good things. It might end up with the same lens as in the G7X or something similar. The tilting LCD on the G7X, like the one on the Sony RX100II/III, seems to add almost no size so that might show up on an G17 also.

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Re: Canon G15: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:20 am

I still know some people to this day who are angry and annoyed Canon took the swivel LCD off (I think they used it for video and things like that) One of whom swears blind Canon only did it so they could "add it later on"

Not sure about the G7X the "selfie" flip out screen might appeal to some but most like the side swivel LCD
No viewfinder at all that's a turn off.

Believe it or not I use the X10's plain OVF quite a bit it's rather refreshing, bit surprised Fuji went with an EVF on the X30, sometimes you need a bit of "old school" OVF

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Re: Canon G15: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bakubo » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:35 pm

bakubo wrote:4. A 3" 922,000 pixel LCD replaces the G12's 2.8" 461,000 pixel LCD.

The G12 had an articulating LCD, but the G15 does not. I am rather happy about this change because I rarely use the tilt/swivel LCD of my other cameras and for a carry everywhere camera I value the size/weight savings much more than the tilt/swivel convenience for the rare times I would use it on this sort of camera.


I know some people prefer the smaller, lower resolution, tilt/swivel LCD on the G12, but I don't. I like the bigger, higher resolution LCD on the G15 and G16. The G12 LCD added a fair amount of size to the camera so I was happy that the G15/G16 shrank. These days the G7X and RX100II/III have tilting LCDs that seem to add almost nothing to the size of the cameras. I wouldn't mind one of those.

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Re: Canon G15: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bakubo » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:21 am

I really didn't need to change from the G15 to G16, but the 2 things I mentioned (speed up of AF/reduced lag time and the slightly better sensor) along with the pretty good price for the G16 here in Japan got me to get it. Also, for the last couple of months I had started checking to see if there was anything out there to replace my G15 since things move on since it came out in 2012. Then when I also saw what came out at Photokina I just didn't see anything that was compelling enough. That left the G16 with it's small, but interesting updates. It was much like when I bought the G15 last year. I looked at everything and for my uses decided that the G15 while not ideal was the best compromise. Recently I again examined all the options and ended up deciding that the G16 was the best compromise for me.

After carrying the G16 around here in Sapporo for the last few days I definitely notice the speed up and that is welcome. The G15 was reported to be faster than the G12 (there was no G13 or G14) and now the G16 is even faster. I was generally satisfied with the speed of the G15, but that is in comparison to other digicams. Now the G16 is definitely faster so that focus and lag are closer to using a DSLR. For this sort of camera and the way I use it the speed up is welcome and adequate.

The G16 has a new BSI 1/1.7" sensor that is a bit better than the G15 sensor. Nothing dramatic, but still welcome. A poster on another forum showed full-size raw conversions using ACR. One was at ISO 80 and it was a wide dynamic range, highly detailed photo that looked quite good. He also showed an ISO 12,800 photo in very low light. I was frankly surprised at how good it looked considering the very high ISO and the small sensor. The photo didn't have lots of fine detail to look at such as hair, but the tight, small noise and no banding made me realize that in some situations that this was an ISO that I could use on the G16. Probably better than I remember ISO 1600 or 3200 on APS-C just a few years ago. The new sensor and the excellent state of raw conversion software these days really is rather surprising. The highest ISO photos I have ever shot are ISO 6400 with the A700, Canon 60D, and Olympus E-M5. With the fast G16 lens though I doubt if I would hardly ever find any need to go above ISO 1600.

Just to get an idea of how the new BSI 1/1.7" sensor does compared to the 1" sensor in the RX100 and BSI 1" sensor in the RX100III here are a couple of DxO measurement charts. As you can see, the differences are there, but aren't that large. By the way, what does DxO mean when they say some of the RX100III data points are smoothed? It seems that the tech is improved at a faster rate for smaller sensors.

Canon_G16_Sony_RX100III_noise.jpg
Canon_G16_Sony_RX100III_noise.jpg (89.39 KiB) Viewed 2233 times

Canon_G16_Sony_RX100III_dr.jpg
Canon_G16_Sony_RX100III_dr.jpg (96.31 KiB) Viewed 2233 times


I have no idea if there will be a G17 or what it will be. With the G7X out now it seems likely that it will have a 1" sensor. Another possibility that sort of sounds attractive to me is if they just have another incremental improvement of the 1/1.7" sensor and manage to speed up the lens by half a stop. The G16 has a fov 28-140mm f1.8-2.8, but the G17 could have a fov 28-140mm f1.5-2.4. I don't know if they could do that, but considering the rather surprising fov 24-100mm f1.8-2.8 for the 1" sensor in the G7X then it seems like it may be possible. The G7X uses a lot of software correction of the lens so that is another thing that the smaller 1/1.7" sensor might need less of.

Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts after a few days with the G16.

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Re: Canon G15: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby Birma » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:38 am

I think the G line continues to be a compelling proposition. Interesting to hear about your experience with them, Henry.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.

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Re: Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:52 pm

The G series was always good it's just getting harder and harder for makers to find new bits to shove in there!
Maybe some new sensor tech can rev things up a bit in the compact sector

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Re: Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby classiccameras » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:22 am

I share my G16 with my wife and we both love it, it really is a great camera, a bit large for the wifes hand bag but I carry it round on its strap.

I would not want any more features or diffent lens or any more bells and whistles as its just fine as it is.
I normally use Programme or AP but my wife wants a simpler life so she just uses it on auto. Most of her pics are landscape but there is no dedicated setting for this mode like Olympus and other cameras have, unless I haven't found it yet, any suggestions where to look?

This camera takes seriously good pictures and has an excellent lens, my only gripe is the OVF. This area needs improving as Fuji did with their X 20 and 30 cameras.
It is also a great companion to my 550D having a similar menu lay out.

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Re: Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bakubo » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:04 am

classiccameras wrote:I would not want any more features or diffent lens or any more bells and whistles as its just fine as it is.

This camera takes seriously good pictures and has an excellent lens, my only gripe is the OVF. This area needs improving as Fuji did with their X 20 and 30 cameras.


Huh? :lol:

I have been taking the G16 with me everyday since getting it while I am out and about. Enjoy using it.

I sold my G15 a few days ago for about $250 so net it cost me $135 for 1.5 years of good use.

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Re: Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby classiccameras » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:56 pm

Hi Bak

I use the G-16 just now and again so I am still not fully familiar with all its potential. My wife uses it all the time and she has asked, is there a programme/setting she can use for taking landscapes with out having to make loads of adjustments, something similar to the Olympus dedicated landscape mode for point and shoot users!
Any suggestions would be good.
Pete

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Re: Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bakubo » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:24 am

classiccameras wrote:I use the G-16 just now and again so I am still not fully familiar with all its potential. My wife uses it all the time and she has asked, is there a programme/setting she can use for taking landscapes with out having to make loads of adjustments, something similar to the Olympus dedicated landscape mode for point and shoot users!
Any suggestions would be good.


Pete, I have never used it, but the G16 has a sophisticated Smart AUTO setting. Scroll down to that section here for some info:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/PS_Advantage_Ease

Smart AUTO provides a simple and easy way to get sharp, bright and colorful images in many situations. It automatically detects scenes by assessing various factors in both the background and subject. Detected scenes are analyzed using a variety of presets that allow the camera to choose optimal settings to ensure the best possible image capture, whether shooting stills or video. With Smart AUTO, all you have to do is compose then take your shot. You get the results you want.

Scene Detection Technology automatically analyzes faces, distance, brightness, color and movement information. The camera detects the whole scene in the frame and passes its data to Smart AUTO which then selects the proper setting for the scene, allowing the camera to deliver optimal image processing for the situation.


That is just a subset of the info so you should look it over. I didn't read it all and there may be other features on the G16 that are mentioned that she may find useful. I suggest she play around with it and see how it works for her. I have seen it mentioned in a couple of reviews and they said it worked well.

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Re: Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby classiccameras » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:35 am

Thanks bak, for the information, it sounds pretty good to me, we will give it a try when there is some sunshine, not much hope with this Autumn weather in the UK at the moment.

Pete

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Re: Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bakubo » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:20 am

This evening I was using LR 5.6 to bring up all my ISO 6400 photos from any camera. I started comparing some A700 raw photos to some G16 raw photos. Taken at different times and different subjects, but all in low light. I would say that the G16 ISO 6400 raw photos are better. I had to use color noise reduction on both sets of raw to get rid of the multi-colored splotches. The luminance noise was mostly better for the G16. Smaller, tighter and less bothersome than the A700. Using a bit of luminance noise reduction for both still made the G16 files look better. Maybe the next time I am reunited with my A700 (it is back in the States) I will shoot a few raw frames with each of the same subject in the same light to compare, but I feel like I already know the answer. Both are 12mp, by the way.

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Re: Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bakubo » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:09 pm

Here is a new user G16 review after extensive use that has a similar take to what I have found. Worth a read.

http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/2014/12/canon-powershot-g16-review.html

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Re: Canon G15, G16: Some thoughts on my new camera

Unread postby bakubo » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:49 am

When I get a new digital camera I pretty much ignore, don't even read about, all the whizbang jpeg modes. The G16, like all cameras these days, has a bunch. Anyway, a couple of months ago I just happened to accidentally discover what one of the symbols on the mode dial meant. It is alongside easier to understand settings such as P, Av, Tv, M, C1, C2, AUTO, etc. It turns out that one of those symbols was for the HDR mode. It will take 3 very rapid photos (seems like less than 1/2 second for all 3) and combine them. The neat thing is that you don't need a tripod. I read recently that the G15 also had this HDR mode, but you had to use a tripod. The G16 automatically aligns the 3 exposures and it works well. Only for static subjects, of course.

I rarely use raw mode with this camera. The type of photos I mostly take with it don't need raw and the raw files are huge. Once I discovered this extremely simple and effective HDR mode (jpegs only) then I need raw for even fewer occasions. Anyway, it is cool. Maybe this is a common feature on other cameras and they also do automatic alignment. As I said, I normally don't pay much attention to these sorts of features.


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