Updates to RX100 and RX1

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Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:16 am

Please don't think I am knocking Sony -

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2013/06/2 ... new-flash/

It's just that all over the place, people have been wanting/dreaming/expecting things like an RX2 with different focal length lens, or a zoom (usually a ridiculous 24-70mm f/2.8 equivalent which would be huge!) or an RX100 with f/2.8 across the entire range - and so on. These folk will be disappointed by the minor nature (in their view) of the upgrades and others will feel a bit peeved they just bought the 'last' model and now there is a new one.

A couple of days ago in Andorra la Vella I was able to see the Leica X Vario, which has a 28-90mm zoom equivalent of quite modest aperture. At 2100 Euros it was favourably priced, and the body is exactly like an M despite being a viewfinder-less APS-C. I guess that this is what some would like to see from Sony, a sort of midpoint between RX100 II and RX1. But it was not at all pocketable or even very carryable (no better than a DSLR really - and with a fixed lens).

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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby Birma » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:27 am

I think the RX100 update is tempting. The flippy-flappy rear LCD is pretty much a must have for me and so it is great to see this added. On balance though the desire to have the ability to swap lenses will probably still push me to the Nex 6.

The RX1R remains too much for my wallet if not for my pocket. Desirable, but not a priority.

The new 43 flash is also tempting but I'll wait to see if this fixes anything with the flash wireless issues.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.

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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby alphaomega » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:41 am

I will consider trading in my RX100 for MkII when LR5 acquires RAW compatibility and all the bugs have been removed so that I can upgrade from LR4.
The tilting screen appeals to me as does the new shoe. I wish to purchase the new ECM-XYST1M Stereo microphone but WEX pronounces "awaiting stock". That mike would fit my NEX-6 as well. During winter I think the enhanced low light capability (less noise) might come in usefully. I really could have done with a true 24-90mm lens instead of 28-100. That is where my LX5 scored, but the Sony sensor is so superior and 20Mp allows so much pixel room for cropping - if just the lens was that bit wider.

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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:11 pm

RX100II doesn't add much to my eyes. It has the new hot shoe, it has some minor updates. Lens is still too slow tele end, still no front grip, still no viewfinder. And the price is £700 pre order on WEX. Too much IMO for such a camera.
I think I'll make a move on that X20 Fuji at some point, whilst I'd love the bigger 1" sensor Sony again miss the mark for me.
They're really milking these premium compacts on prices. To think you can buy an ILC APS-C camera or DSLR for half that cost.
Makes you feel the margins are big on products like this.

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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby pakodominguez » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:34 pm

"there will be many buyers for the new model who will pass the original on to a family member or keep it as a spare."
So, Shirley already kidnapped your RX100?
;-)
On my side, I think I'll keep repeating the mantra: "I don't need another camera, I don't need another camera"
I hope it will work this time -I guess it will, since my only gripe with the RX100 was the lens at the long end/close up (at the wide end the lens is wonderful)
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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby pakodominguez » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:45 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:RX100II doesn't add much to my eyes. It has the new hot shoe, it has some minor updates. Lens is still too slow tele end, still no front grip, still no viewfinder. And the price is £700 pre order on WEX. Too much IMO for such a camera.
I think I'll make a move on that X20 Fuji at some point, whilst I'd love the bigger 1" sensor Sony again miss the mark for me.
They're really milking these premium compacts on prices. To think you can buy an ILC APS-C camera or DSLR for half that cost.
Makes you feel the margins are big on products like this.

I think the best you can do is taking advantage of the people that don't need both models (rx100 and rx100II) and will sell their less-than-one-year-old RX100. Get one, use it and I believe your approach to this camera will (totally) change.

Pako
PS: Sony is not "milking these premium compacts". They found an niche product that is really hot and selling pretty well worldwide, and not just on the Asian market as many of us expected, and this despite global economy.
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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby Dr. Harout » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:18 pm

I am also interested in the HVL-F43M.
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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:11 pm

pakodominguez wrote:
Pako
PS: Sony is not "milking these premium compacts". They found an niche product that is really hot and selling pretty well worldwide, and not just on the Asian market as many of us expected, and this despite global economy.


It's not just Sony clearly margins are higher on these models than budget compacts or DSLR's
I think they're all milking it a bit, but hey fire away at that price I think it's too pricey.

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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby Heidfirst » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:21 am

bfitzgerald wrote:
pakodominguez wrote:


It's not just Sony clearly margins are higher on these models than budget compacts or DSLR's
I think they're all milking it a bit, but hey fire away at that price I think it's too pricey.

indeed as afaik the UK MSRP is meant to be £650 so it appears that the retailers are milking the early adopters too ...
Given time it should drop to ~£525 & imo all the changes are worth ~£75 over the original version.
It's not a camera that fits any of my needs but clearly it's done well for Sony so there must be plenty of people that it does resonate with.

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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:38 am

A friend recently picked up a Nikon 1 (not that I am that nuts about the range, but still) I think they paid £199 for one with a lens.
One can't help but wonder just how little some cameras cost to make.

The camera makers are trying to buck the trend on electronic goods...ie they get cheaper, quite a lot cheaper over time. Be it hi fi's, TV's, computers..

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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby Birma » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:51 am

Not sure on that Barry. Sure the old models / specs. get cheaper but on TV's, for example, the latest and greatest (40 inch) remain in the £1,000+ range. Same on Laptops. iPhone and iPad; new ones come out at the same price, last year's get cheaper. I have always thought that consumer electronic firms want to get the same target price for their new models as they did last year, they just have to pack in some new features each year to get the same price. I would think that retail price has as much to do with what they can get away with and what the competition is doing as cost to manufacture.

The approach to RX100 mk2 pricing seems to follow this trend. Pack in a few more features, sell at the same price as last year's model when it came out. Judging by the initial demand for it (see SAR) they have got it right this time.
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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby KevinBarrett » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:12 am

I'm excited about these updates. Sony had two hit cameras, and developed on the winning formulas quickly and with minimal fuss. I'm pleased to see that there's no premium on the removal of an AA filter (I'm looking at you, Nikon), and that the RX100 can reach the full potential of its hardware (at least with the current system of accessories) with the addition of a hot shoe, a remote interface, and an articulating screen. If the RX100 had to get more expensive, I'd rather it be for the addition of these features, and not for anything that would make it more bulky, such as an EVF or a faster lens.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:02 pm

Birma wrote:Not sure on that Barry. Sure the old models / specs. get cheaper but on TV's, for example, the latest and greatest (40 inch) remain in the £1,000+ range. Same on Laptops. iPhone and iPad; new ones come out at the same price, last year's get cheaper. I have always thought that consumer electronic firms want to get the same target price for their new models as they did last year, they just have to pack in some new features each year to get the same price. I would think that retail price has as much to do with what they can get away with and what the competition is doing as cost to manufacture.

The approach to RX100 mk2 pricing seems to follow this trend. Pack in a few more features, sell at the same price as last year's model when it came out. Judging by the initial demand for it (see SAR) they have got it right this time.



Well with TV's they'll now try to sell 4k at a price premium, but prices will fall back dramatically over time.
Computers have dropped massively in price in the last decade, sure you can still go loopy and spend big money on top end stuff, but the average pc is now far cheaper today than it was back then.

Cameras I expect 2 things to happen
APS-C to shift down to the sub £1000 category and it won't be able to get above that.
Full frame to take over the enthusiast/premium segment

And I expect to see bigger sensors in compacts even cheaper ones. They'll have to do something to "stand out" from the camera phones/ipads etc. More pixels won't do, and they've played the mega zoom to death too.

As for the Sony it's just too expensive the first RX100 was £550 at release and this is £650. Add the cost of the add on viewfinder and it's a silly price to pay for a 1" sensor, that's my take anyway. But I'll be honest it was only interesting in relation to the bigger sensor, in most other ways I didn't care much for the design or concept.

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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby Mark K » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:52 pm

It is expensive...more than Nex3n...so while waiting for the price of RX100 to drop, I bought a 3n instead. However they are two very different cameras. RX100 is a pocketable camera and there must be a good reason for its price. I am getting an RX100 II...

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Re: Updates to RX100 and RX1

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:09 pm

IMO Sony don't tend to drop prices to the same degree as some other makers. Fuji are notorious for heavy discounts once a model has been on the market for a while.
RX100 was about £550 first release down to about £420 now. I would expect it to drop a bit more but not to Fuji levels.

X10 was £499 now it's well under £300, I'll personally stick around and probably wait for the X20 to drop in price. But leaving that aside I just can't see the sense is paying £500-£600+ prices for what is basically a compact camera. I do like the images off the RX100 they are good, sensor does deliver.


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