New Olympus E-M1 body for 4/3 and m4/3 lenses

[classiccameras]

Sony looking at M/4/3!! I hope not, it would be like waving a white flag at the enemy, we give in and we will come and join you. The only way that might happen is if Sony take over the whole show at Olympus, they are already the biggest share holder. I'm sure if they did, big changes would happen at Olympus. Also remember, they have been doing some joint research on sensors and lenses for some time.

If I wanted to go small but remain with a APS-C CSC, I would seriously look at the Samsung NX 20.
Lets just wait and see what Sony has in store for us this winter or next year, it might be a real winner or a complete disaster. One way or another, it might just give you the little push you need to stay loyal or jump ship.
If I jumped ship it would not be to M/4/3.
Barry, DPr never reviewed the A-37? Amateur Photographer [renowned for their Canikon/Pentax preference] gave the A37 a fair and un biased test and a high score.

[bfitzgerald]

Damn you make a strong argument for buying at home there Henry, $1299 vs $2081 is certainly a strong inducement.
I’m sure almost zero Americans would think that £1 Stirling is the same value as $1 US dollar.
$1299 USD equals £811.41 at today’s rates, that’s roughly what they should be paying in the UK if all else is equal.
They seriously get reamed over there in the UK it seems, I bet it’s mostly import duty and taxes that’s making up the difference, taxes on top of taxes.

I just read that the E-M1 in the U.K. is £1299, but that includes the 4/3 adapter, battery grip, and extra battery. These items alone are priced at about £400, I think, so the E-M1 body works out to about £899.

Henry we know grips and batteries cost very little to make and have huge margins, so it's not really that generous. They ran the same grip offer on the EM-5 when that came out, still wasn't a £1000 camera either way.

I actually only kept the A57 as Sony sent me freebies and it's not worth that much to sell it. My preference has always been optical viewfinders, that's never changed. I'd call myself a reluctant EVF user, only around because having changed mounts twice before I can't really afford to take another bath on re-sale values of the lenses I have.

The "Sony look at micro 4/3" is basically a hint to the company that they are not going to meet the needs of most of their DSLR users if they go down the NEX road with adaptors for A mount. This is the argument some normal 4/3 users have too. ie nice as the EM-1 might be it's not really ideal for some users. A3000 is a strange choice it's too big to be NEX normal body compact, and far too cut down and basic to be appealing to DSLR buyers first time or not.

There is def a place for micro 4/3 and "some" other ILC makers. But the predictions of a DSLR mass slaughter have proven wrong as many of us said a few years back. CSC/ILC's have not proven very popular outside the far east with poor sales in Europe and the USA. There are too many mounts, too many makers and something is going to have to give somewhere.

Samsung are not really a key player, lots of lenses promised that have not arrived. They were shifting some super cheap NX1000's for a while, now they're trying to sell NX1100's with a tablet which is not a great idea IMO. I wouldn't be that surprised if they pack in their camera operations, the company is huge granted with a lot of resources but hasn't really made much impact in the market. Their last release was pretty hilarious too Galaxy NX camera for $1,599.99 body only, hmmm I can't see that selling in big numbers

[Greg Beetham]

I get the impression lately that there is a bit of an upsurge of interest in mirrorless, mainly because they seem to have lifted their game a bit now, the IQ the performance and size all make them attractive as a compact second cam system or even a single system…for those that can afford it or justify having a second system for some purpose or other.
Whatever the reason they do seem to hanging in there, there are also a plenty of adaptors for the 4/3rd systems too not just the NEX.
But count me out on one, no sale, I like a camera that turns on when I want it to, not some time later.
Maybe Russell Howard’s nonono cat was being photographed by a Samsung NX?

NoNoNoCat2.jpg (22.98 KiB) Viewed 4763 times

As far as a FF NEX goes I don’t even understand why people would want a FF NEX anyway, what’s the deal with that? It seems to me it runs counter to the whole idea of the NEX in the first place.
I suppose if Sony thinks that they could sell a whole bunch of FF NEX’s to those wanting one then they probably will bring one out at some point…then we can all get some sleep.
Greg

[classiccameras]

From what I read, M/4/3 sales around the world have flat lined and within those figures, Panasonic beat Olympus. Sony NEX are doing better than M/4/3 in most markets. Apart from Point and shoot pocket cams, Bridge cameras are a small growth area.

[classiccameras]

Forgetting Samsung's position in the camera manufacturing world for a moment,
and looking at one specific product, the NX20, it does tick most boxes for me, and the kit lenses are way above average and better than almost all DSLR Kit lenses. Their small but high quality lens collection is growing slowly but I would not use the criterion, if they don't make a 300-mm F/2.8 tele i'm not interested in buying into the system. Ok, every one has different needs and requirements but mine is quite simple and what lenses they do already would satisfy my needs. I have been blown by the image quality and how easy it is to use, but like all cameras its not perfect, but then my requirements are not really affected by any of its short commings, plus i'm not that worried they are not a major game player.
The NX20 fills a gap for me as a light, compact ICL CSC with superb IQ equal to any high end DSLR and an excellent EVF. If the price drops even further, its on my short list.

[Greg Beetham]

I did some digging and it’s hard to find up to date info, you could be right about mirrorless cameras classiccameras they could be flatlining everywhere outside of Japan, (any link to some info?).
Compact sales have certainly gone backwards everywhere according to this http://www.photocounter.com.au/2013/pro ... act-sales/ they have tanked 42% for the first 5 months of this year.
The article proposes that the actual buying market is changing too, the people who buy cameras now are in a more demanding bracket than before and buy cameras that suit their needs.
I’m not sure where that leaves cameras like the A3000 or the A58 if that’s the case, both of those are not really in the demanding kind of category, the A99 fits but it’s probably overkill, with the price anyway.
I can’t find any reliable info about the way Olympus mirrorless cameras are selling, they don’t appear in the top seller list at Amazon but then they only have stats on their own sales.
Greg

[classiccameras]

Greg, I read it on another photo site which was a post by a member so cannot confirm authenticity.
It seems that the new Olympus EM-1 is selling very well, but its to enthusiasts rather than a mass market so sales in relative terms in comparison to lets say Canikon are pretty small. Also the same poster said the EP-M Pens are not doing that well but Panasonic are slightly better.
The whole industry is in decline, with various formats at different rates, but I also read that the decay rate is not over yet as more and more people just rely on their Mobiles. The more descerning buyer is a shrinking section of our community and more and more camera manufacturers are chasing a shrinking market. On a positive note, I beieve things will turn round eventually, but it will be a different market to what we know now.
I have no idea who would have the best handle on world sales, but we can safely assume, its not going to well for any of them at the moment.
When companies like Sony dig themselves a hole with the A58 and A3000, you would think they would stop digging.

[classiccameras]

When I said the new EM-1 is selling very well I meant to say my local camera shop has recieved a huge amount of pre orders. The same happened with OMD-EM5.

[bfitzgerald]

You have to put things into context here which often escapes some people. Just because Steve Huff writes a blog about how amazing the next micro 4/3 body is doesn't mean it's going to break sales records

E-M1 will do well for "micro 4/3 users" they won't have any problems shifting stock with current micro 4/3 people.
Whether it has massive sales and starts to really do damage to other makers I'm not so sure about, I'd say no not a hope.

I just look around, and I see a heck of a lot of people in a popular tourist region. And I see a LOT of Canon, some Nikon. The odd micro 4/3 and NEX but in far far smaller numbers.
I'm not seeing a huge demand for any of these ILC cameras, the odd one is around with a kit lens but not much else. So I'm sticking to my "mirrorless bubble" the next event in photography that was supposed to revolutionise the industry but just turned out to be yet another type of camera that suits, "a few folks"
A few very vocal people that is.

I like choices and I'm glad we have these types of cameras for those who want them, but the bubble did burst even Nikon admitted their 1 flopped. Simply put too many Indians chasing too few Buffalo's, and that applies across the photo industry. I'm actually looking forward to less makers, less models and longer updates, and we hope better cheaper products with stronger QC and less issues. You can only sell people the same thing so many times, do you think in 10 years time tablet sales will be as strong? Not a chance..things always slow down. The photographic industry was never meant to be mass market for some types of product (SLR for one was aimed at the more aspiring type shooter) it has to calm down sometime.

The only way the OM-D range was going to rock the boat big time was if it were "full frame" (I mean real FF 35mm), micro 4/3 only gets so interesting to most people.

[bakubo]

Forgetting Samsung's position in the camera manufacturing world for a moment,
and looking at one specific product, the NX20, it does tick most boxes for me, and the kit lenses are way above average and better than almost all DSLR Kit lenses. Their small but high quality lens collection is growing slowly but I would not use the criterion, if they don't make a 300-mm F/2.8 tele i'm not interested in buying into the system. Ok, every one has different needs and requirements but mine is quite simple and what lenses they do already would satisfy my needs. I have been blown by the image quality and how easy it is to use, but like all cameras its not perfect, but then my requirements are not really affected by any of its short commings, plus i'm not that worried they are not a major game player.
The NX20 fills a gap for me as a light, compact ICL CSC with superb IQ equal to any high end DSLR and an excellent EVF. If the price drops even further, its on my short list.

The NX20 seems to be fairly nice. Note, that the U.K. price is quite a bit higher than in the U.S. so that may be an issue for you. It doesn't have IBIS and only a very few lenses have ILIS. That may not matter to you, but it is certainly a bad point for me. The big thing though is the total size when you include lenses. The bigger size is probably one reason it is cheaper than Olympus. Here are comparisons with your A37, NX20, and E-M5 with 2 of the lenses I use a lot on the E-M5 (14-150mm f4-5.6, 9-18mm f4-5.6) and the closest equivalents for the A37 and NX20. Notice that the NX20 and lenses are really not all that much smaller than your A37. What is there about the NX20 that you like much more than your A37?

camera_1.jpg

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camera_2.jpg

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[Greg Beetham]

I see on snapsort http://snapsort.com/explore/most-popula ... ths-recent you can look up the most popular mirrorless cameras based on the amount of searches for particular models and the number of clicks on that model (that would be on snapsort only), the EM-5 ranks pretty highly while the NX20 is on about the fourth page I think.
The big surprise to me is the EOS-M being ranked in at #3, (number of search clicks-popularity) I thought it was supposed to be a dud at the sales counter?
Greg
Ps I see PC mag wasn’t all that keen on the IQ from the NX20, rating it lower than the E-M5.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2410439,00.asp

[classiccameras]

Thanks for posting those comparison pictures. Interesting to see the difference. Of course the weight factor is important.

Canikon users don't seem to have a problem with no IBIS. I must admit though, a few years ago Olympus 4/3, Pentax and Sony were all on my look again list because they had IBIS.
The NX20 was on my short list if A Mount disappeared next year [which I doubt] and these are my reasons for choosing it.
Firstly, I want a DSLR shape body, EVF and articulated LCD, APS-C format, and high quality glass, and although as Bak pointed out NX lens sizes are not much smaller than the Alpha lenses. NX lens size would not be a deal breaker for me.

As nice as the new M/4/3 cameras are and all the glowing reports about the new Olympus EM cameras, I am not going down the M/4/3 road again, I was totally unimpressed with all my Panasonics right up to the G3 and a borrowed G5. My old Oly E-510 and E-450 gave far more pleasing pictures and I will keep those for sentimental reasons, plus they are only worth peanuts now.

I've seen quite a few reviews of the NX20 and most give it top marks for IQ and the ergonomics of handling, but there were one or two reviews not so enthusiastic but then there were for SLT. However, I agree with Barry to a certain extent reviews generally are pretty bad and very often biased. Salient points are often missed and minor things are blown up to be a big deal. This can really affect sales in a negative way, or a good way depending on the review.
I'm hoping that Sony will be sensible enough to hold on to their SLT users by giving them what they want next year as I still think Sony are one of the better cameras out there.

[bfitzgerald]

My thinking is, smaller yes but none of the ILC cameras are that small unless you use pancake lenses with them.

If you want a compact camera, your best choice is still to erm buy a "compact camera"

http://j.mp/18W8r04

[classiccameras]

I was thinking more on the lines of a replacement system [not a compact] if A mount was stopped, and I certainly don't want bigger than my A37, which is why I was looking at the NX.
I have a sneaky feeling that Sony are going to force the issue with a series of A3000 bodies to try and ween us off 'A' Mount. They will need to supply and 'A' mount adaptor though. In other words they could do a 4/3 to M/4/3 [ A to NEX ]with a take it or leave it attitude as Olympus did with all the dedicated 4/3 users.

[bakubo]

I was thinking more on the lines of a replacement system [not a compact] if A mount was stopped, and I certainly don't want bigger than my A37, which is why I was looking at the NX.
I have a sneaky feeling that Sony are going to force the issue with a series of A3000 bodies to try and ween us off 'A' Mount. They will need to supply and 'A' mount adaptor though. In other words they could do a 4/3 to M/4/3 [ A to NEX ]with a take it or leave it attitude as Olympus did with all the dedicated 4/3 users.

I recommend you read through this interesting thread from 2.5 years ago about NEX/E-mount hybrid bodies that are more SLR-like and have full function, fast AF adaptors for A-mount, Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sigma, Tamron, etc. AF lenses:

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/vie ... =49&t=5690