Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day?

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Greg Beetham
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Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day?

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:39 pm

Hmmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHepKd38pr0 maybe that engineer guy watched the movie a few times.
Anyway remember in the movie the blade runner guy (Harrison Ford) just shoved a print he found someplace into the machine it wasn’t an image file per se, I don’t get how that will ever be possible unless in the future prints will contain all sorts of additional data somehow, data that the camera of the future imprints into it. Like this budding blade runner style Lytro camera http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/ is trying to do with image files, interesting though.
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Re: Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day

Unread postby Dusty » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:44 pm

Obviously, you can't enhance what is not there, and the prints only include so much, but hey, it's TV and they can do anything, right? Like get those DNA samples on the cop shows done in an hour.

As to Lytro, I looked into that when they first came out, and they were only about 1.5 MP resolution. They're claiming the new one is 40 'megaray' resolution, whatever that is! I guess if you're inventing new tech, you can invent the new measurements to go along with it, too! Volt, Ohm and Ampre did!

If the resolution got up to something decent, even if not 40 MPs, just around 6 or 8, I might be very interested in that.

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Re: Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:01 pm

That scene used to puzzle me. If you look closely at it you can see a few strange things.
Firstly it's some kind of "3d world" because you can't see the girl at all even when he goes into the mirror closely, and it manages to move the angles to see her.

The other thing is the degree he's zooming in would be pretty spectacular resolution to get that kind of clarity (obviously they took still shots for the closer up samples) It's enough to make even a die hard D800 user whimper at their low resolution!

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Re: Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day

Unread postby mvanrheenen » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:51 am

I think this will be possible in the (near) future. It is remarkable how much information can be extrapolated from data which IS available and how this information can be used to fill in the blanks or actually, how to calculate the blanks.

A few days ago a colleague of mine sent me an artikel where a few programmers made a digital, 3D movie rendered in realtime from a program they compiled in only 64Kb. That's sixtyfour KILObytes, as much RAM as the Commodore 64 had! This remarkable feat was possible due to some very efficient algolrithms and programming. These hobbyists made it possible to create a 10 minute long movie with soundtrack out of nothing than a bunch of algorithms. If that's possible, the scene from Bladerunner is too.

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Re: Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day

Unread postby Birma » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:48 am

What a brilliant movie. Even after all of those years it is still a fabulous example of the art form. Harrison Ford's finest performance IMHO. The "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe ..." speech still gives me goose pimples.

As Mark has said, bound to happen.
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Re: Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:18 pm

Yes Birma I agree the movie was very good and a bit scary, that someone would depict such a bleak future for mankind, and would we want that kind of outcome and how could it be prevented, those thoughts tend to crop up.

Rutger Hauer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_saUN4j7Gw was very good and very convincing also, and just about all of the other actors were of the same high caliber in their own parts, including the Nexus female (Rachael) that Deckard (HF) ran away with.

But anyway, I don’t know about the data contained in the photo idea, sure you could ‘create’ additional information if you wanted too with all sorts of fancy algorithms, but the thing is, in the movie it was actually supposed to be real information that was used in tracking down the rogue Nexus replicants, or one of them at least.

And that is the problem, the additional data encapsulated and hidden within the surface data has to actually be real. As Barry pointed out the machine tracked through the photo into another room and revealed things not originally visible, as if the photo was a 3D entity in a 2D form, sort of like the Tardis being much larger on the inside than the outside.

I don’t know if they ever will get that one nailed, I have no idea how you would capture and record light by any means that wasn’t directly visible at the moment of capture. Maybe they could use Neutrinos, we are bombarded continuously by Neutrinos passing through us (they even pass through the Earth from the other side before passing through us as well) so maybe one day they could utilize those…somehow, the problem with them is they rarely interact with anything.

The other solution is too far-fetched, that the original camera that recorded the photo actually produced a complete record of a moment in ‘time’ at that location and the machine could use the photo as a ‘portal’ to revisit that frozen moment and navigate through it. I’m not sure I would even want to handle a camera capable of doing that, :shock: it would probably contain a micro singularity and be able to control event horizons and record entropy and chaos in a directional manner, and doing that could influence the outcome, by the act of doing it.
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Re: Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:27 pm

Rutger Hauer is a bit of a dark horse actor, works very well for creepy roles esp the "hitcher"
I watched Bladerunner a few months ago, it's still quite fresh and ahead of it's time. I do like the dark moody atmosphere even if I'm not a Harrison Ford fan (he mumbles a lot and can be annoying, but was good in this)

I'm sure tech will advance over the next 10 years or so. Now if they can get a 500 megapixel into a jpeg file that's 10MB I'd be impressed. Otherwise we will be using up an awful lot of hard drive space

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Re: Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day

Unread postby Dusty » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:09 pm

In ten years time, Barry, we'll have Petabyte hard disks, so what does it matter?

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Re: Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day

Unread postby agorabasta » Thu May 01, 2014 8:23 pm

Greg Beetham wrote:The other solution is too far-fetched, that the original camera that recorded the photo actually produced a complete record of a moment in ‘time’ at that location and the machine could use the photo as a ‘portal’ to revisit that frozen moment and navigate through it.


Greg,

It may well be the way our human memory is functioning in remembering the details of a particular moment of the past. There's simply too much info a human can remember when really pushed to do so. Chances are, the consciousness simply revisits the real physical past instead of looking into its local storage memory.
But here we're at the brick wall of modern science paradigm that commands that the real physical events must be reproducible to be considered as an experimental basis of "scientific knowledge". Since the real past in its sufficient entirety is not reproducible in the very principle, that real past may only be deemed non-physical within that modern science paradigm.
Some new physics is really needed here...
And the fact that you're thinking of those issues so deliberately is actually evidencing that something is really approaching as you are definitely not alone in thinking along those lines.

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Re: Do you think they are actually trying to do it...one day

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Thu May 08, 2014 2:29 am

Agorabasta yes there would always be room for some new physics I think considering from what I’ve read on some subjects, cosmology for one, (there was a book on the search for the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation that was pretty interesting) and a smattering of quantum articles and books, (Schrodinger’s Cat was good) half of which I’ve forgotten.
The elusive unified field theory would be new physics but I’m not holding my breath on that one, there seems to be no connection between the micro universe and the macro universe that could make such a theory a reality, maybe time is tied to gravity in some incomprehensible fashion, mass and energy is described in E=MC2 completely, as much as I know on the subject that is, but maybe doesn’t include gravity/time in its entirety perhaps.
Possibly they have now discovered enough to know we don’t know very much, even some quantum theory seems to border on paranormal activity, I don’t know how one can expect to have completely reliable results and testable confirmation when there is so much unpredictability and chaos in the micro universe, some of which doesn’t appear to be even testable anyway.
Maybe there are parallel space times and we get some ‘leakage’ now and then from our ‘other selves’ or maybe there is a more metaphysical plane of existence but I don’t know how that would work. How could we even relate to it?
It would be like trying to make an intelligent fish comprehend the existence of the universe at large, there is no frame of reference for the fish so it all would remain incomprehensible.
I guess we are much like the fish in a lot of ways, we can see more of what’s going on than a fish can for sure and run experiments but I’m not sure if that has helped to really understand what makes everything tick.
Greg


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