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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:28 pm 
Viceroy

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:20 pm
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Quote:
I have the same ideas about the GPS and the way that it is done.
I think that this way he gets down the overall sales. I am not going to pay 200 more for GPS and more mixels that I do not need.

aramkostanyan, pleae note that this is Sony's current entry model . You do not get all the top model features in an entry level model at a low price point.
This looks to me to be quite a potent camera at a reasonable price.
With regard to bfitzgerald's point
Quote:
DPR's preview again reads like a marketing brochure for Alpha (I wish they would be a tad more objective)

I seem to remember that certain members of this Forum used to complain about DPReview that they were too CAN/NIK oriented in their treatment of Sony. You cannot have it both ways. Maybe they just have a higher regard for Sony's innovations than bfitzgerald does.


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:40 pm 
Heirophant
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So in that case why did A55 have GPS?
To bring more people to the entry level and abandon them there or make them to buy more expensive stuff. This idea is seen as a marketing point of view, but I think that this attitude would make users to switch to other brands.

Aram

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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:07 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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A55 was a one off from Sony and they've now decided that you have to pay extra for GPS.
As for DPR well the staff have changed a bit, personally I think they lack objectivity with SLT as they do with other makers too. You do not need to lecture people on the pro points of SLT (v an OVF) in a preview. Even I would be able to word an objective SLT preview, it is quite easy really.


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:13 pm 
Acolyte
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I'd like to know if the A57 has Sony A65's shutter with electronic first curtain mode. Perhaps, Sony has yet to announce another SLT to replace the A580. There was a rumor about the A600, that has Sony A65's electronic shuttter with first curtain mode. I read some where that Sony would have three announcements, 1 week apart, starting on march 13. Maybe there are more announcements in the works.


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:42 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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Fotogeorge wrote:
... I read some where that Sony would have three announcements, 1 week apart, starting on march 13. Maybe there are more announcements in the works.

I hope so. And keeping fingers crossed for new lenses and accessories.

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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:39 pm 
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George - as even the NEX-5n has the shutter with first curtain electronic option, I am sure the A57 will have it.

David

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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:24 am 
Oligarch
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bfitzgerald wrote:
Even I would be able to word an objective SLT preview, it is quite easy really.

Easy for you! Seems maybe objectivity is being confused with condemning a product. They're not based on the same thing. Real objectivity is not so easy.


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:50 am 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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It would be easy you just avoid making any statements or opinions either way. We know DPR are deeply in love with SLT technology and EVF's, but they could use more appropriate wording at times to at least portray some kind of objectivity.

You can read the first 3 paragraphs for yourself but it's a Sony sponsored brochure talk, not a preview. I don't need to read nonsense about "DSLR purists" or silly sweeping statements that make excuses or convey false information. DPR has really gone down hill in that respect lately. They are fast becoming another "Pop photo"


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:12 am 
Oligarch

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:20 am
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bfitzgerald wrote:

Auto Portrait Framing! Yes we've been waiting for that for years :lol:


If that's not on the A99, I'll bet there will be a lot of disappointed people.

tom


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:32 am 
Oligarch
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bfitzgerald wrote:
It would be easy you just avoid making any statements or opinions either way. We know DPR are deeply in love with SLT technology and EVF's, but they could use more appropriate wording at times to at least portray some kind of objectivity.

You can read the first 3 paragraphs for yourself but it's a Sony sponsored brochure talk, not a preview. I don't need to read nonsense about "DSLR purists" or silly sweeping statements that make excuses or convey false information. DPR has really gone down hill in that respect lately. They are fast becoming another "Pop photo"

I've read lots of excellent reviews where statements or opinions were made either way. I don't consider lack thereof criteria for objectivity. But there seems to be no middle ground here. If it's not bashed on DPR, then they are deeply in love with it? I think you might make a great politician. Can you please give examples of what the excuses and false information are?

And to give us an example of objectivity, could you please rewrite the first three paragraphs using more appropriate wording so we can know what real objectivity is? You have made the claims, so please demonstrate. Given what I've read of your writings I had already come to the conclusion that you are DSLR purist. And for good reason. Am I wrong, or have you fast become another Ken Rockwell? Since the SLT, he refers to obsolete mirror-flippers as "real DSLRs."


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:20 pm 
Tower of Babel
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I don’t know about you but I think the Canon has the drop on the others in this standard dpr studio shot. There isn’t much in it of course but the 600D looks cleaner and sharper to me. http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sonyslta57/5
Greg
Ps. Btw how is this for high ISO scroll down to the 100% crops of the banknotes D800 @ ISO12,800 is awesome.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&thread=40899518&page=1


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:48 pm 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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One example is this quote:

"We've enjoyed using the SLT cameras we've used so far. Concerns about light-loss, electronic viewfinders and ghosting may have made DSLR purists nervous, but most people who tried using the cameras couldn't help but be impressed. Having light constantly directed to the AF sensor meant the SLTs could offer autofocus both during video shooting and 10 frame-per-second shooting - a combination still unmatched at the consumer end of the market."

Now most of that should be thrown in the bin straight off it's a preview and not a review (so save the personal thoughts for that, stick to the camera)
Once you start putting out dribble like "most people couldn't help but be impressed" who the hell are "most people"??

So did the DPR team go out with various SLT cameras so members of the public could try them and they conveyed their "I'm impressed" thougts to the team? It's the kind of comment that has no place in a preview or a review. As for the last line "combination unmatched" again brochure talk. Stick to the "facts" and the spec, save the personal stuff for the review. Clearly it's going to go "Gold" and we know that even now. They also have an annoying habit of brown nosing Apple products too (they get news, but other makers don't)

I see DPR are now doing "Printer reviews" yet abandoned lens reviews some time ago for some odd reason. I think the site has lost direction in recent years the team has grown quite a bit, but the reviews have become rather stale and uninteresting. The review rate per person working there is also quite poor, with that number of staff they should be doing quite a few more reviews.


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:56 am 
Oligarch

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 2:07 am
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bfitzgerald wrote:
. As for the last line "combination unmatched" again brochure talk. Stick to the "facts" and the spec,

but what if the facts are that no other similar camera at it's price point can match the combination of AF in video or 10fps? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:24 am 
Subsuming Vortex of Brilliance
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That depends if that is what the buyer wants. It would be foolish to suggest nobody would like that, but equally it might not be high up the list of a buyers needs.
I have never found a high FPS and video functionality high up my list at all, but then I don't really do the shooting that demands that.

I'm sure some might be drawn to these models for budget sports shooting/action and video work. But that is not an accurate reflection of all buyers needs. As Sony have a high FPS on all models (v traditional DSLR's) they must find other ways to limit the appeal spec wise, hence you get GPS removed, or limited bracketing options.


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 Post subject: Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:49 pm 
Oligarch
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bfitzgerald wrote:
One example is this quote:

"We've enjoyed using the SLT cameras we've used so far. Concerns about light-loss, electronic viewfinders and ghosting may have made DSLR purists nervous, but most people who tried using the cameras couldn't help but be impressed. Having light constantly directed to the AF sensor meant the SLTs could offer autofocus both during video shooting and 10 frame-per-second shooting - a combination still unmatched at the consumer end of the market."

Now most of that should be thrown in the bin straight off it's a preview and not a review (so save the personal thoughts for that, stick to the camera)
Once you start putting out dribble like "most people couldn't help but be impressed" who the hell are "most people"??

So did the DPR team go out with various SLT cameras so members of the public could try them and they conveyed their "I'm impressed" thougts to the team? It's the kind of comment that has no place in a preview or a review. As for the last line "combination unmatched" again brochure talk. Stick to the "facts" and the spec, save the personal stuff for the review. Clearly it's going to go "Gold" and we know that even now. They also have an annoying habit of brown nosing Apple products too (they get news, but other makers don't)

I see DPR are now doing "Printer reviews" yet abandoned lens reviews some time ago for some odd reason. I think the site has lost direction in recent years the team has grown quite a bit, but the reviews have become rather stale and uninteresting. The review rate per person working there is also quite poor, with that number of staff they should be doing quite a few more reviews.

Lets break it all down -

"We've enjoyed using the SLT cameras we've used so far."

Sounds like a fact to me. They enjoyed it. Why should they say they didn't if they did? This matches my own experience.

"Concerns about light-loss, electronic viewfinders and ghosting may have made DSLR purists nervous,"

Definitely another fact!

"... but most people who tried using the cameras couldn't help but be impressed."

Highly likely this is a fact as it was my own experience. Remember this is limited users who tried the cameras as opposed to those who stood in a store looking through the viewfinder.

"Having light constantly directed to the AF sensor meant the SLTs could offer autofocus both during video shooting and 10 frame-per-second shooting"

Another fact.

" - a combination still unmatched at the consumer end of the market."

An obvious fact.

bfitzgerald wrote:
Now most of that should be thrown in the bin straight off it's a preview and not a review (so save the personal thoughts for that, stick to the camera)

It seems we've entered the realm of semantics here. A preview is generally regarded as assessments made prior to actually having a camera in hand and a review are statements made about actual experience with the camera. Whether it's a mini-review or a full review, they had cameras! It's obvious they were sticking to statements about their actual experiences. So all these stated facts should be thrown in the bin? You can throw them in my bin.

bfitzgerald wrote:
Once you start putting out dribble like "most people couldn't help but be impressed" who the hell are "most people"??

Reviewers are not isolated in a vacuum. They have friends and associates that they counteract with and if only six out of ten people were impressed, that would easily fit the the meaning of the term "most people."

bfitzgerald wrote:
So did the DPR team go out with various SLT cameras so members of the public could try them and they conveyed their "I'm impressed" thougts to the team?

I doubt that but you are again referred to the above. I also doubt the reviewers were Jedi knights imposing their will on unsuspecting imperial troopers with mind tricks.

bfitzgerald wrote:
It's the kind of comment that has no place in a preview or a review.

It's exactly the kind of comment that definitely has a place in a review. It may have no place in a preview but that is because they wouldn't have had cameras to be able to make those kinds of assessments.

bfitzgerald wrote:
As for the last line "combination unmatched" again brochure talk.

It was accurate brochure talk. Can you supply another camera in that class that matched it?

Earlier you said -
bfitzgerald wrote:
It would be easy you just avoid making any statements or opinions either way.

But then you said -
bfitzgerald wrote:
Stick to the "facts" and the spec, save the personal stuff for the review.

I think I'm getting whiplash!

How can you simultaneously not have opinions and personal stuff in a review and at the same time, have it? This is a camera review trial, not a court of law trial!

You said "stick to the 'facts'" and I just conveniently sorted out all the facts for you at the beginning of this post, yet you want all the facts thrown into the dust bin. And so you still have not provided any examples of excuses or false information.

bfitzgerald wrote:
I see DPR are now doing "Printer reviews"

I like printer reviews.

Ed


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