MS Pro slot nonsense

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David Kilpatrick
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MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:43 pm

This has been quote in a dPreview thread - it's a direct quote from their A900 review, and an appallingly flip piece of clever-clever journo writing:

"Once again Sony has included that professional photography essential, the Memory Stick Duo slot (in addition to the arguably more useful CompactFlash slot). This vestigial slot will undoubtedly appeal to PSP touting hipsters prepared to pay over the odds for a proprietary memory format, but for the rest of us it's doomed to remain a small, narrow place to keep dust."

I can't believe that Simon Joinson has not seen either the camera connected to an HDTV, or the MS Duo card inserted into the latest PSP. The PSP allows fantastic scrolling, animated, 100 per cent views of the images (not just the HDTV format images either) while the camera itself with the remote control does a superb job of playback. The presentation of images on the PSP is a dedicated function, and of course you can create DVD/CDs to show them or connect USB devices like card readers, but the MS Duo is directly loadable.

There are several very good reasons for having the MS Duo slot. I regret that you can not use the Memory registers to save a setting which writes to the MS Duo card (it will not save/recall your card selection) and that you can not assign the C button to jump to the card selection menu (it's not one of the options). So, you have to use the menus every time to switch to the MS slot. But I have a Memory setting for snapshots - no raw, 13MP size, 400-1600 auto ISO, wide area focus etc - and I can rapidly switch to this, then switch cards, to shoot personal snaps not connected with work or stock projects. It will take many years for my 4GB MS Pro card to fill up with this kind of snap. I also have my menu options set to return to the last menu used, so after switching to MS, I just press menu once any shots have been taken, and it goes straight back to let me select CF again without navigation.

You can keep a slide show on the MS card, or your portfolio. For a professional, having a complete portfolio show on the MS Duo card is useful - switch over, show client, whether on the camera or by plugging in to a display, or USB and copying files to their system. Not just professionals, either, plenty of amateur users would like to have a great selection of their pix (delete protected) stored on their camera to show people. Nothing to stop you storing a ProShow Gold or ProSelect, Powerpoint, etc presentation on the card to copy on to laptops.

The missing functions - ability to copy a file from CF to MS Duo, ability to use Memory to switch cards, automatic sequential use of MS when CF full, split writing of RAW and JPEG between two cards, backup writing of two identical sets of captures - are frustrating. This question was asked during the A900 launch conference - could the firmware for the A700 and A900 be updated to change the situation? The answer was a very firm single 'No' from the Japanese technical guy. Closed. Can never be changed. No further explanation was given.

David

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bfitzgerald
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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:28 pm

I think the vibe is a general anti MS stance. I have to say, and many won't like it, but Memory Stick is a Sony only format, and I think it's time for it to go away and die in the corner.

I don't own a playstation, though I did once (1&2), just about everyone else is using SD for their cameras, and SD fits every media device made.

I won't buy a MS only product, that means sony will never sell me a compact. I feel the same about XD too. Both formats are hang-ons, when there is only room for 2 of them. I know a 2nd slot is better than no slot, but this is exactly the type of "sony ish" stubborn attitude that holds them back. So the complaint is about MS itself..

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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby mikehawthorne » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:13 pm

do you also get fed up with the complaint from some critics about the hot shoe connecetion, as it is a uniqe design ok but i have third party flash and had no problems.

After all you cant change flash from conon to nikon and vice versa. They have to have some thing to moan about, Ephotozine did it this time, it may turn first time buyers off unecersseraly.

mike hawthorne

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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby Javelin » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:49 pm

the whole MS is proprietary argument is bunk as far as I'm concerned. Here you can't even buy CF outside of a camera shop anywhere. theres so much junk being sold as CF these days I'm not interested in even gambling on them. the design of cf sucks too.. and the failure rate even on known good cards seems incredibly high..in fact I have a drawer full of them at work ( well maybe 2 or 3) I can't use to capacity because they get write errors and every MS I ever bought is still good. I have a CF card in my A700 but it'll only get used if I run out of MS cards and their isn't a 7/11 around to buy another MS from. tell me you don't immediately unpack and try your CFcards as soon as you get them to check if they are any good? I did for the 2 I bought recently .. it just shows I have no confidence in them at all where I do with the MS. The cost difference that exists in them doesn't even mean that much to me The thing is going to last forever anyway and theres no risk of bending a pin on the camera or other device which would require sending away for repair. Sorry the MS is just plain better and I don't mind spending a bit for better quality.. I think the rest of the camera market should standardize on the MS and the Minolta hot shoe.. the same principals apply to both.

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bfitzgerald
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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:54 pm

I have never had a CF issue, not once, never. So I don't buy the point made above.

Ok, so if MS is so great, let Sony dump CF, and just use MS. The reason they won't do that, is because they know full well, it will murder their sales. That in itself pretty much admits the format is their own little creation, and nothing else.

Not a chance this LONG list of makers will go MS, they are all using CF for higher end SLR's or SD for everything else.

Canon
Nikon
Panasonic
Fuji
Samsung
Kodak
Hitachi/Acer
Pentax
Ricoh

And just about every other 3rd party manufacturer.
And the list for MS is:
Sony

Can we spot a trend here?
Only sony die hard fans support MS, everyone else hates the format ;-)

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There is one reason why I don't like the MS: Price.

Unread postby Yagil Henkin » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:44 pm

When I get a 2gb Ultra II MS card for ,ore than the price of a 4GB Extreme III card, and that's basically the same with every card maker, It's definitely no surprise that I'll prefer the CF everyday. Although, now that prices came down a bit, I'll probably buy anyway an MS Ultra II 2GB as backup card - but hey, two CF's or one CF and one SD would've been better.

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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby Javelin » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:09 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:I have never had a CF issue, not once, never. So I don't buy the point made above.

Theres lots of reported errors on CF in all the forums from every maker that uses CF

Ok, so if MS is so great, let Sony dump CF, and just use MS. The reason they won't do that, is because they know full well, it will murder their sales. That in itself pretty much admits the format is their own little creation, and nothing else.

Sony never used anything but MS in all their P&S cameras . hasn't hurt them one bit so I think your point is wrong

Not a chance this LONG list of makers will go MS, they are all using CF for higher end SLR's or SD for everything else.

No but they mostly make it a point to NOT use CF in almost everything they make.. maybe they know doggie-doo when they see it?

Canon
Nikon
Panasonic
Fuji
Samsung
Kodak
Hitachi/Acer
Pentax
Ricoh

And just about every other 3rd party manufacturer.
And the list for MS is:
Sony

you mean devices

Can we spot a trend here?
Only sony die hard fans support MS, everyone else hates the format ;-)


Nonsense. people use the memory they need for the devices they want to use. The only ones that "Hate" memory stick are those people who think their being forced into something without even thinking that there going to have to buy memory no matter what.. and of course those that have a grudge against Sony.. usually those people hate microsoft too for the same reasons

My point isn't that MS needs to be universally accepted.. I don't really care. my point is CF is doggie-doo and needs to die. actually it's already really dead the only things that are using it are the high end cameras. Jeez I got stuck buying a more expensive reader because there was only 1 model of about 15 available that had a CF slot in it, every single one had a memory stick slot.. CF is just too obscure <----

Yes Sony is the only one putting MS in their devices. but that's a lot of devices in every single corner of the consumer electronics sector. from mp3 players and phones to 10k televisions and DLSR's . CF is in a dozen models of SLR cameras... and the makers of those cameras won't use it in their largest markets. what it shows is a few die hard segments can support poor technology for a while. I think the CF sized hard drives were the only thing that kept the format alive this long because nothing else had the capacity when the Megepixels took off on cameras... you sure haven't heard people talking about microdrive for afew years now because the capacities on flash ram have gotten a lot better. CF's just not going to last.. theres knock offs everywhere.. to many maufacturers driving the price down and not enough devices using it.... How much longer do you think CF will hang on? Forget CF, it's finishd, this is the trend your missing. Every other format is superior including MS.. In fact I would have prefered if it was only Sony that made MS as well. again i'm only going to buy a few and they will last the whole life of my cameras and probalby the next ones as well. So far the MS branding and liscense has kept the quality up among everyone that makes MS (it's not only sony that makes them) and I can only hope that control continues. Am I going to be mad if I have to buy diferent memory for a future system? nope not one bit. as long as it's made well I don't care. it's not as if I have to replace something as fundamental as lenses if they go a diferent way.

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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby bakubo » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:16 pm

As long as the camera uses CF I don't care that it also uses MS. Although I haven't bought an MS to stick in the slot on my A700 I think it is a great idea to have the capability. It is rather bizarre to me why anyone would get upset about this. As for MS being a Sony proprietary memory format, well, I don't care much about that either.

First News Flash: Sony also has proprietary batteries, lenses, flashes, and raw format.

Second News Flash: Canon and Nikon, etc. also have proprietary batteries, lenses, flashes, and raw format.

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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby Javelin » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:22 pm

Heh ! exactly! and you explained yourself in a few lines very impressive.

bakubo wrote:As long as the camera uses CF I don't care that it also uses MS. Although I haven't bought an MS to stick in the slot on my A700 I think it is a great idea to have the capability. It is rather bizarre to me why anyone would get upset about this. As for MS being a Sony proprietary memory format, well, I don't care much about that either.

First News Flash: Sony also has proprietary batteries, lenses, flashes, and raw format.

Second News Flash: Canon and Nikon, etc. also have proprietary batteries, lenses, flashes, and raw format.

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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby Dr. Harout » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:26 pm

I kind of agree with Javelin. :roll:
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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby AJ Gressette » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:37 pm

So how do we get it universal? LOL
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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby paulobro » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:32 pm

As I see it we get no choice, neither on the A700 nor the A900. There's no option, is there?
We get two slots.
Seems foolish to me to left one unused, whatever reason. And that's it.
Paulo Brochado

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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby Javelin » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:52 pm

I'm sure sony would love it to be universal. the makers of the cards wouldn't care one way or the other, the other manufacturers though I'm sure pick what they do because it's suitable and cheap.. if MS was cheaper than SD I'm sure everything would take Memory sticks from all manufacturers. I just this afternoon picked up a 8g MS for 30 bucks from a home hardware store :)

AJ Gressette wrote:So how do we get it universal? LOL

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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:08 pm

Back when I only had 1GB CF cards - when the Alpha 100 first came out - Sony MS Duo Pro 2GB cards were 30% cheaper than any CF so I bought two to use in my A100 with the supplied adaptor. I then found my Konica Minolta G600 compact had an MS Pro slot as well as SD (and could copy between the cards, so that is clearly not a patent restriction), and the cards came with Duo to MS adaptors thrown in free, so I used one in the G600. When the A700 appeared I had a card ready to go into it. Only used it once, when I forgot to put my CF card in.

I did the same when testing the Canon 450D - got everything ready, got a mile from the house and realised I had not put its SD card into it - and my camera bag contained no other SD cards, only CF...

Right now I can get a SanDisk 16GB Pro Duo Ultra II for £89.99 from MyMemory. The CF is Extreme III and £72.99, a bit cheaper, but it's much harder to find 16GB CF for some reason - there seems to be plenty of 16Gb and 32GB Memory Stick around maybe for Sony HDvideo cams?

David

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Re: MS Pro slot nonsense

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:16 am

This is for Javelin..

Don't "assume" that everyone feels CF is unreliable. Let's see how many people use it as their primary card for the A900? Not many I bet, esp considering CF is so much faster.

Also, yes sony is big, but combine the electronic devices from all oher makers, and you will find sony in the minority.
If you bought cheap tatty CF cards, that's your own problem, I, and many others have used it without issue.
MS will never be accepted, nobody uses it, only sony. That is the crushing reality of the situation.
And name me the sony DSLR that only takes MS? Not a single one..wonder why???


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