which software

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larryk
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which software

Unread post by larryk »

Hi all ,just joined have a 350 and enjoy it. But now comes which softare to buy. Paint shop or elements both are on sale here for 50 dollars US. Having not used either whats easy for a beginner. I down loaded trial elements and tried to down load paintshop but down load fails for me.

Larryk
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Re: which software

Unread post by Javelin »

Being new I would suggest elements. the tools in that are a lot similar to photocshop and lightroom and it's better if you get used to using those tools because the majority of photograpers are familiar with it. help is easy to get and very soon you will all speak the same language :)

I'm sort of in the same boat as you but I used a lot of diferent software and never really learned Adobe's way of doing things and that puts at a disadvantage when seeking help or expanding my knoledge
peterottaway
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Re: which software

Unread post by peterottaway »

I am assuming that you have a Windows PC and not an Apple Mac. And that the PC is a general purpose machine and not one of the souped up gaming machines.

For all your likely needs for years to come then Adobe Photoshop Elements is a good choice as it regularly upgraded, has good performance without needing expensive upgrades and there are any number of reference guides and how-to-do books available for you.

When you buy the software I would suggest take the extra time to visit a good bookshop and browse through several of these books and pick up one of them. Everyone learns differently so pick the one that you feel most comfortable with.

I made the mistake of ignoring the how-to-do books as most of the exercises in them didn't seem to be for what I wanted, BIG mistake. Most of the authors are experienced in teaching Elements and will lead you through all the things you will need to know.
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Re: which software

Unread post by alphaPDX »

I picked up Elements and have only begun to learn the possibilities. One source of info that I found useful was from a British digital-imagimg magazine; it had a video-CD included that showed several basic adjustments and RAW-development techniques in a video-instruction format. It alternates between Photoshop and Elements, but the speaker tells you where to find the command in both versions (one lesson is on Curves, which Elements doesn't have). Can't recall the magazine's name, it's on my desk at work :roll: -- if you can reach one of the large book-sellers, you'll find plenty of good magazines with helpful ideas. And at some point I'll need a guite-book too.
Jim R, Oregon -- a200 + lenses & stuff
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Re: which software

Unread post by Dr. Harout »

I would highly recommend "Elements", as the previous posters have emphasized.
And you're welcome on the forum. :D
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KevinBarrett
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Re: which software

Unread post by KevinBarrett »

A friend of mine (a Canonite) recommended I get Lightroom. Does anybody have any experience with this program?
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Re: which software

Unread post by alfake »

Kevin and Larry: I use Lightroom. For me, its two main virtues are the following:
1) Workflow: Lightroom is not only a RAW converter, but also a library manager. That’s why it can easily be your one and only photography program (specialized needs excepted). And life is much easier when you have to learn and use only one program... (There is a slight downside to this: Lightroom forces you to ‘import’ the images into its library before it can ‘see’ them. No big problem to me.)
2) On-line help: Web help sources are plentiful. (I visit lightroomkillertips once a week.) This two Lightroom virtues are decisive for me.
But: Other programs seem to do a better job than Lightroom-ACR at converting Sony RAW files (many knowledgeable people think so). So if you only need a RAW converter, other options could be better choices. (Although Adobe seems to be catching up on this area… or at least I hope so.)
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peterottaway
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Re: which software

Unread post by peterottaway »

There are whole group of programs costing from say USD 100 to USD 500 which go beyond ACR or Elements, all of which offer 30 day trials. But take care about trying too many of them at the same time, you will just keep going around in ever confused circles.

There is Adobe Lightroom, Apple Aperture (Mac OS only), Bibble & Bibble Pro, LightZone and Phase One Capture One in LE and PRO versions to name a few. These programs offer varying degrees of correction to exposure,editing and colour adjustments as well as image management databases and printing management. Some also offer optical adjustment and correction.

Some have third party reference books /instructional DVD /on-line tutorials. If you think you will need this type of help, check these out before putting down any money.

For many non-professional photographers these programs are more than they need.And complex enough to take up a lot of your time in learning to use functions which you may almost never use.
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Re: which software

Unread post by alphaomega »

Larryk (and others) should be aware that Sony's Image Data Converter and Adobe's Elements do not have the ability to correct Cromatic Aberration. This is not a problem if the only requirement is to produce 6x4 or 7x5 prints. You do not need the A350 for that though. If professional results are required and usage is made of lenses such as the CZ 16-80 then a program that can remove CA is definitely required. I submit to Alamy and invariably I have to remove CA in Adobe RAW. I have always thought that Sony cannot be taken seriously until they provide an IDC that includes CA removal. I was completely baffled when I learnt that IDC version 3 released at the same time as the A900 did not include CA removal. In fact I am still shaking my head in despair at that omission. That is the main reason I use Adobe RAW instead of IDC to convert my A700/A350 RAW images. I also use Panasonic LX2/3 pocket cameras. Fortunately Silkypix is supplied free for these and is quite efficient in removing CA.

So if Larryk has a need for large professional files he requires a program that can remove CA. Probably Lightroom might be a good choice here as he could develop a complete workflow just using one program rather than having to pass from a RAW converter to a photo manipulation program. Elements uses a cut down version of Adobe RAW, which is fine if there is not a requirement for CA removal. I have never been able to understand why Adobe do not include CA removal in the RAW converter version they supply for Elements. Presumably to force serious users to buy Lightroom and/or Photoshop full version.
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Re: which software

Unread post by alphaomega »

Sonolta wrote
200,000+ frames and I have only removed CA on about three of them....purchase lenses that do not demonstrate much CA and you won't need to correct for it. :wink: BTW, I regularly produce high quality 24 inch prints, and at times I push things to 30 inches without the need for any CA or PF correction. FWIW...I have sent close to 2000 images to publishers the past few years and on not one of them did I need to remove any CA.
Maybe certain lens makers should not be taken seriously if they can not get CA under control.
Actually the "worst" lens I have that produces CA around sharp edges at the extremes of some images is actually the CZ 16-80. Maybe my copy is defective but I seem to recollect that DK referred to this issue in some of his entries on this site and when reviewing this lens.
A 24 inch print is pretty large but still only 24 inches. Unfortunately Alamy (and presumably other photo agencies) inspect at 100% (and that is where CA is noticeable - if present). As the width of a 50 Mb file at 100% is more like 60 inches along the longest side at 300 ppi, I need to remove it when present and so does other intending suppliers to the likes of Alamy.
I would agree that for most people CA does not enter into the equation and that is probably why Adobe has not included it in Elements. The fact that all "professional" image conversion and editing software include CA removal tells its own story - there is a demand for such a function and it is - regrettably - needed for some of us. It is unlikely that larryk will need it if he is just a "beginner".
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Dr. Harout
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Re: which software

Unread post by Dr. Harout »

And do you use Retouch Pro now? Does it have anything superior to ACR/LR?
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alphaomega
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Re: which software

Unread post by alphaomega »

Reference Sonolta's recent contributions today, I must admit I am genuinely amazed at his ability to "fire off" a volley of information and Web site links on all matters photographic containing genuinely useful information. I have Elements 2, 3 and 5 and bought Scott kelby's The Photoshop Elements 5 Book for Digital Photographers some time ago. I was impressed by his ability to show that you could virtually do all the things in Elements that a photographer would want from Photoshop proper if you knew how to go about it - EXCEPT no mention of CA removal.

In fact I wonder how Sonolta finds time to run all his businesses and also provide the rest of us with information and images.

I actually own a copy of Richard Lynch's The Adobe Photoshoop Layers Book. My confession is that I have not as yet made a proper study of its contents. As I am mostly a fair weather photographer and do a lot of initial editing in ACR There is so little left to do in PS that using layers seems "overkill".

When I use my beloved Panasonic LX2/3 P&S wonders I need to remove CA in almost every picture to achieve Alamy QA requirements and that is using Leica lenses.
peterottaway
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Re: which software

Unread post by peterottaway »

Many of the recent posts are indeed highly relevant for the mid to high end photo enthusiast, BUT for everyone of them there are many what I will describe as photo hobbyists. They may have an A 200 or even a A 350 bought with one of the kit offerings, have to compete with other family members over the computer and have an A4 printer.

If they have been lucky then a local store was offering a good price on a Epson 1410 when a larger than expected tax refund came in. An Epson 2880 is a minor miracle.

For such photographers Photoshop Elements or Bibble when complimented by freeware/shareware plug-ins and scripts is what they need. And as has been pointed out, when you learn them well, it is amazing what you can do.
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Re: which software

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Elements has another benefit - compared to full Photoshop, it's easy on HD space and memory use for laptops, and does not eat up a full Photoshop activation. We only have one Photoshop (Creative Suit CS3) as it's all we can afford and justify - it provides one activation for my Mac, one for our son's Mac, legitimately. But I have a spare machine and Shirley and I both have laptops. PS Elements provides a good solution for keeping a near-Photoshop app on these, and we also bought Lightroom for a similar reason - it runs better on a slightly ageing iBook.

I have Capture One Pro, but one problem - the latest build only runs under Mac OSX Leopard and Intel processors, but my only machine with Leopard is a G5 machine not Intel, and my Intel machine is so heavily loaded with important stuff I really don't want to do a new system upgrade. Elements has usually been very backwards compatible, so Adobe has my money for Elements for the last three releases.

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larryk
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Re: which software

Unread post by larryk »

Thanks for all your replys, going with elements 7. Kids are giving me elements and a book on it for Christmas.
Thanks to all.

Larry
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