Nikon D3X on the way

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:38 am

The price of the Nikon is pure crazy..

Over £5000, that is serious cash. I can get a lot of A200's for that ;-) lol

Not sure what justifies the price of it, the D3 is about £2500 odd. I expected this to be £3000 maybe a bit more.
Ok so established pro's won't sniff at buying a couple of bodies for £10k, they will just offset it against their tax return..but wow..and we were talking about FF getting more affordable! That should include the top end too.

Hope to see FF hit £1000 at some point, and then down to semi pro bodies.

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:04 pm

Each sensor now has 24 million gapless microlenses applied by hand... that's the difference :-)

I'm sure the sensor silicon is the same but the 12-channel readout and the gapless microlenses appear to be Nikon claims which Sony has not made for the A900. That means the performance could be far superior. Also, the window modes include 5 x 4 - no indication whether this is a raw crop or not.

The price is a clear indication that Nikon intends to continue making money in the present difficult conditions. It allows for recent exchange rate changes and deflation predictions, as well as the assumption of much lower unit sales. Over the past decade we have suffered from over-production of cameras at too low a price, too frequent a replacement cycle, and with much reduced quality in terms of mechanical/optical assemblies. The D3X represents a mature product which should not need replacement within the next 5 years. If they make 'em carefully, price them high and sell them slowly it will do Nikon more good in the long term than cutting the price down and flooding the market.

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby Yagil Henkin » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:17 pm

David Kilpatrick wrote:I'm sure the sensor silicon is the same but the 12-channel readout and the gapless microlenses appear to be Nikon claims which Sony has not made for the A900. That means the performance could be far superior.
David

I find it quite hard to believe that the performance would be far superior, unless Nikon will make also a new line of ultra-extra-super-duper-sharp lenses. the 24.6 MP is already streching many lenses, and managing to make the sensor sharper than the A900 would not be an easy feat, given the many example of amazing A900 sharpness.

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby pakodominguez » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:38 pm

David Kilpatrick wrote:Each sensor now has 24 million gapless microlenses applied by hand... that's the difference :-)

you kiddin, don't you?

David Kilpatrick wrote:The D3X represents a mature product which should not need replacement within the next 5 years. If they make 'em carefully, price them high and sell them slowly it will do Nikon more good in the long term than cutting the price down and flooding the market.

Some how, I see the A900 in the same perspective: a camera I can use for the next 3 or 4 years without envy the new model from the competitor (or from Sony) I don't care about Live View and I want video (better than Nikon and Canon solutions) but not on the A900 class but on a A700 class instead (or A800 FF)

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby NealS » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:33 pm

The comment on under-pricing of cameras is extremely insightful. However, I am not sure it will lead to changes in build quality of so called 'prosumer' grade DSLRs. Do you think Canon will also follow this path when pricing future pro or 'prosumer' bodies?

Also, what are the chances of the new sensor appearing in a D700 body? Have you heard anything about this from your sources? A D700x would be a very tempting camera....

David Kilpatrick wrote:
SNIP

The price is a clear indication that Nikon intends to continue making money in the present difficult conditions. It allows for recent exchange rate changes and deflation predictions, as well as the assumption of much lower unit sales. Over the past decade we have suffered from over-production of cameras at too low a price, too frequent a replacement cycle, and with much reduced quality in terms of mechanical/optical assemblies. The D3X represents a mature product which should not need replacement within the next 5 years. If they make 'em carefully, price them high and sell them slowly it will do Nikon more good in the long term than cutting the price down and flooding the market.

David

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby NealS » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:40 pm

Could the high price of the D3X be the result of a tacit understanding between Sony and Nikon? In return of supplies of the new sensor Nikon agreed not to compete with the A900, at least for now?

Alternatively, supplies of the the sensor are tight at the moment, so the high price keeps demand from exceeding production.


Pure speculation, I know.....

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby bakubo » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:47 pm

Reichmann at LL has canceled his D3x order:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/whatsnew/

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby NealS » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:57 pm

Have a look at this link:

http://www.bythom.com/nikond3xcomments.htm

Seems even Nikon loyalists are concerned about the price and specs.

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Thanks for the Example.

Unread postby Yagil Henkin » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:40 pm

The Pics at 6400 lack details, and seem slightly OOF. I'd guess NR was applied, for the lack of Chroma Noise. Not very impressive - But it seems that almost ALL first-out-of-the-camera pics tend to be horrible, regardless of maker.

Yagil Henkin
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Definitely nice pages, thanks!

Unread postby Yagil Henkin » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:01 pm

However, I can't find a full-size pic of 3200/6400 ISO in them. even the zoom for the 1600 isn't full-size. But as I've already said, I believe Nikon has no intention to make this camera a high-ISO machine.

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The Exif at ISO 6400 says Noise OFF.

Unread postby Yagil Henkin » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:10 pm

1/[email protected], 50mm, flash on, and if I understand correctly - 2/3 stop exposure balance. That Is pretty impressive for a NR off, Noise-Wise. The detail isn't amazing, but ISO 6400. However, something looks strange to me - the 6400 noise pattern looks, on my screen, more "natural" than the 3200. and I find it hard to believe that it has almost no NR - I profiled both with Noise Ninja and got 6 Chroma Index, lower than several D3 pics @3200 ISO taken under better lighting (for example, this one at 1/[email protected] http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=24564526) - that is pretty much impossible. Despite the EXIF, there must be some kind of NR going on. We'll wait for the portrait shots to reveal what's really happening.

The Low ISO shot you've posted is impressive, as expected.

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I like portrait shots for ISO,

Unread postby Yagil Henkin » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:07 pm

Not because I ever intend to shoot one, but because they have so much fine detail, it's easy to spot the differences. This shot from [email protected] Isn't all that bad. Is the sample from the Nikon light years ahead? hard of course to compare, but I don't think so.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=30177508
and 3200 too:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=30181614

The Nikon has exceptional quality, don't get me wrong, but:
A. It's not a high ISO machine, nor intended to be (not that there's anything wrong with that),
B. I would be hard pressed at the moment (based on the samples I've saw) to identify an A900 pic from a D3x one - the portrait is amazing, as is a portrait I've seen taken with the sony.

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:08 pm

I've put a few thoughts on dPhotoexpert:

http://www.dphotoexpert.com/2008/12/01/ ... till-sell/

Much of this also applies to the A900. I've now complained to Canon about the softness of the 24-105mm, and they are to speak to me tomorrow. Today, we had a GAS CUT. Had power cuts before, but this time, we were told all our gas mains would be cut off for several days. Fortunately, this place has three boilers and two of them were on an unaffected main they reconnected just now - not before I had bought an extra emergency halogen heater. But the panic earlier on meant I had to ask Canon to call back tomorrow to tell me what the score with the soft imaging is.

I don't think the D3X looks any better than the A900 at low ISO, and even at 6400, the A900 from raw with chroma NR and minimal luminance NR (plus the right processor) is not too far removed on neutral, low saturation, relatively well-lit subjects such as Nikon show.

David

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:27 am

Don, I have been looking at more of my A900 shots and I'm wondering now if the cRAW format is influencing the sky noise. I intend to shoot uneconomically and try RAW instead, generally I have been using the compressed format and it may not ultimately be such a good idea.

New shot here at ISO 100 has good sky, but of course still showing a quantization pattern. Actually, I think my iMac screen produces 'noise' in gradations like this whether I like it or not - and I know for sure that any calibrated monitor will apparently show more noise than an uncalibrated one set to its native linear response.

Image

http://www.pbase.com/davidkilpatrick/image/106591947/large

Not bad for a £106 15 year old 28-105mm at 35mm and f10 (in such high wind, by the way, that I was blown over on to my back after shooting this pic - you would never realise it from the shot - people were holding their arms out at the spot I was standing to 'lean' against the wind).

David

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David, beautiful shot. one question:

Unread postby Yagil Henkin » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:13 am

The corners seem a bit soft to me. Is this a question of focus, or are they soft on the A900 even at f/10?


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