Nikon D3X on the way

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Dr. Harout
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by Dr. Harout »

Is there any real innovation on the D3X :?:
A99 + a7rII + Sony, Zeiss, Minolta, Rokinon and M42 lenses

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alphaomega
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way - Sensor supplier?

Unread post by alphaomega »

I am frankly surprised that nobody has addressed the issue of who could be the supplier of the D3X sensor. The dimensions are identical to the Sony Exmoor but the pixel size differs by .1 Mp. It has the same frame rate but can do 14 bits as opposed to A900's 12 bits processing. Any views?
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picman
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by picman »

Dr. Harout wrote:Is there any real innovation on the D3X :?:
Unbelievable that they haven't incorporated an antidust system, they have got it on the D700.
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by alphaomega »

Sonolta replied to my sensor question
Many have speculated that it is a Sony sensor...
It is indeed an intriguing question. As I recall it, DK had some views on a possible supplier of the Nikon D3 sensor. I think he eventually concluded that it was unlikely to be Sony but som other Japanese fabricator with some links to Nikon. Nevertheless the firmware update for the D3 released some time ago inadvertently also contained information on a 24 Mp sensor. Now if the 12 Mp sensor was not made by Sony why would it potentially contain information on a Sony fabricated 24 Mp sensor? It could also be that Nikon had another sensor in mind at that time and then switched to Sony for whatever reason such as performance, cost, delivery or what have you? It is, of course also possible that Sony is not the sensor supplier.
If Sony really is the supplier of the basic Exmoor sensor in the D3X then I would not be surprised to see a re-run of the D300/A700 noise debate. The D3X will have better high ISO performance in RAW and even more so in Jpeg. Then after 6-12 months Sony will issue a Firmware upgrade like V4 for the A700 bringing the A900 high ISO performance up to D3X standard and A900 owners will be happy.
I any event the photographic magazines will now have a field day comparing the A900 with Canon's 5DII and Nikon's D3X.
There was and interesting thread in DPReview a couple of days ago referring to a Polish comparison of the A900 with Hasselblad & Mamiya medium format cameras:
http://www.swiatobrazu.pl/.." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. ...d_h3_mamiya_afdiii_sony_alpha_900_821.html,1
Interesting conclusion in favour of the A900. I see from the Nikon thread that there is already dissatisfaction with the D3X (lack of video among other things).
I am pretty convinced that the three FF DSLR suppliers have medium format users very much in their sight and in the long term more and more current medium format users will shift to CNA FF cameras. It will be interesting to see how the fight will pan out and if the A900 with a smaller selection of superior lenses can hold its own against NIKCAN.
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by KevinBarrett »

If the sensor is static (not moving) then it probably has more effective pixels than an (almost) identical Sony sensor. Sony and other sensor-moving cameras, either for anti-dust or anti-shake, take a slight crop out of the middle, do they not?
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

KevinBarrett wrote:If the sensor is static (not moving) then it probably has more effective pixels than an (almost) identical Sony sensor. Sony and other sensor-moving cameras, either for anti-dust or anti-shake, take a slight crop out of the middle, do they not?
No, there is no loss of pixels. The film gate has been made extra large on the Alpha 900 with an oversize shutter, and the sensor is the same full size as any other. Differences in pixel counts between implementations of the same basic sensor are due to different values of AA filter needing a larger or smaller radius of pixels to spare round each 'mapped' pixel location, for the deBayer process; and some pixels round the edge of the sensor are always left out of the final count for this and other reasons, in all sensors.

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$8k for the D3x

Unread post by bakubo »

Whew! $8k for the D3x.

http://press.nikonusa.com/2008/11/nikon ... master.php

"The Nikon D3X will be available at Nikon Authorized Professional Dealers starting December 2008, and will be available for an estimated selling price of $7999.95."
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by PhotoTraveler »

What a joke on the price.

And now we can basically confirm it's the same sensor.

25.72MP Total is the spec for the nikon and the Sony.

The image of the nikon sensor shows it looking exactly like the Sony sensor and nothing like the D3 sensor.

Nikon isn't claiming they designed it.
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by bakubo »

PhotoTraveler wrote:What a joke on the price.
Yeah, for about $8k you can get (prices from Sony website):

A900 $3,000
CZ 16-35mm f2.8 $1,800
CZ 24-70mm f2.8 $1,750
70-200mm f2.8 G $1,700

or:

A900 $3,000
35mm f1.4 G $1,200
50mm f1.4 $350
CZ 85mm f1.4 $1,200
CZ 135mm f1.8 $1,300

or:

A900 $3,000
CZ 24-70mm f2.8 $1,750
70-300mm f4.5-5.6 G $750
50mm f1.4 $350
100mm f2.8 macro $590
135mm f2.8-4.5 STF $1,200
HVL-F58AM $450
VG-C90AM $280

or ????
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

The price of the Nikon is pure crazy..

Over £5000, that is serious cash. I can get a lot of A200's for that ;-) lol

Not sure what justifies the price of it, the D3 is about £2500 odd. I expected this to be £3000 maybe a bit more.
Ok so established pro's won't sniff at buying a couple of bodies for £10k, they will just offset it against their tax return..but wow..and we were talking about FF getting more affordable! That should include the top end too.

Hope to see FF hit £1000 at some point, and then down to semi pro bodies.
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

Each sensor now has 24 million gapless microlenses applied by hand... that's the difference :-)

I'm sure the sensor silicon is the same but the 12-channel readout and the gapless microlenses appear to be Nikon claims which Sony has not made for the A900. That means the performance could be far superior. Also, the window modes include 5 x 4 - no indication whether this is a raw crop or not.

The price is a clear indication that Nikon intends to continue making money in the present difficult conditions. It allows for recent exchange rate changes and deflation predictions, as well as the assumption of much lower unit sales. Over the past decade we have suffered from over-production of cameras at too low a price, too frequent a replacement cycle, and with much reduced quality in terms of mechanical/optical assemblies. The D3X represents a mature product which should not need replacement within the next 5 years. If they make 'em carefully, price them high and sell them slowly it will do Nikon more good in the long term than cutting the price down and flooding the market.

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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by Yagil Henkin »

David Kilpatrick wrote: I'm sure the sensor silicon is the same but the 12-channel readout and the gapless microlenses appear to be Nikon claims which Sony has not made for the A900. That means the performance could be far superior.
David
I find it quite hard to believe that the performance would be far superior, unless Nikon will make also a new line of ultra-extra-super-duper-sharp lenses. the 24.6 MP is already streching many lenses, and managing to make the sensor sharper than the A900 would not be an easy feat, given the many example of amazing A900 sharpness.
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by pakodominguez »

David Kilpatrick wrote:Each sensor now has 24 million gapless microlenses applied by hand... that's the difference :-)
you kiddin, don't you?
David Kilpatrick wrote:The D3X represents a mature product which should not need replacement within the next 5 years. If they make 'em carefully, price them high and sell them slowly it will do Nikon more good in the long term than cutting the price down and flooding the market.
Some how, I see the A900 in the same perspective: a camera I can use for the next 3 or 4 years without envy the new model from the competitor (or from Sony) I don't care about Live View and I want video (better than Nikon and Canon solutions) but not on the A900 class but on a A700 class instead (or A800 FF)

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NealS
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by NealS »

The comment on under-pricing of cameras is extremely insightful. However, I am not sure it will lead to changes in build quality of so called 'prosumer' grade DSLRs. Do you think Canon will also follow this path when pricing future pro or 'prosumer' bodies?

Also, what are the chances of the new sensor appearing in a D700 body? Have you heard anything about this from your sources? A D700x would be a very tempting camera....
David Kilpatrick wrote:
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The price is a clear indication that Nikon intends to continue making money in the present difficult conditions. It allows for recent exchange rate changes and deflation predictions, as well as the assumption of much lower unit sales. Over the past decade we have suffered from over-production of cameras at too low a price, too frequent a replacement cycle, and with much reduced quality in terms of mechanical/optical assemblies. The D3X represents a mature product which should not need replacement within the next 5 years. If they make 'em carefully, price them high and sell them slowly it will do Nikon more good in the long term than cutting the price down and flooding the market.

David
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Re: Nikon D3X on the way

Unread post by NealS »

Could the high price of the D3X be the result of a tacit understanding between Sony and Nikon? In return of supplies of the new sensor Nikon agreed not to compete with the A900, at least for now?

Alternatively, supplies of the the sensor are tight at the moment, so the high price keeps demand from exceeding production.


Pure speculation, I know.....
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