IQ: Canon 5D Mk2 vs. P&S vs. A200, Sony market share at 20%

[A1000]

The black dot issue on Canon is not visible in A3 prints. It is visible in A2 prints. This means that you can print safely to A3, as with better P&S cameras. So real-world resolution, indicated on how much can you enlarge the image is on the level of P&S. It does not discourage the Canon nerds, fanboys, and other Canon lowlife to be proudly displaying their FF P&S IQ image cameras, mostly with non image stabilized lenses, as oposed to even $150 Sony P&S. Many of the new Mk2's also have hot pixels in the movie mode.

D1 Mk3 with focus issue. The new camera with black dots. I think Canon should concentrate more on making coppiers and toilet accessories and leave cameras to a real camera maker - the famous imaging giant Sony, which dominates professional and broadcast video and digital cinema market.

One may argue that the Sony $150 camera is inferior in some other ways, so I recommend Sony A200 for a small fraction of the cost ao the Mk2 and ability to produce much larger prints without any black dots.


It all starts showing in market share of Sony, which is now at around 20% worldwide. The market share increased 2.5x from last year, and is on the rise. Remember the 2.5 rise is averge for the year, so is the 12.4% market share in Japan. Sony started the year at some 6% and are now at approx. 20% worldwide market share. As soon as they start producing revolutionary-type cameras, and they will, they will move to No.2 spot. It will not take long.

With only a few weeks left of 2008 now, some well-informed views of how the DSLR manufacturers performed in the marke this year is begining to emerge.

Today, they independent analysts at Mizuho Securities Equity Research, Tokyo, issued their view in an 8-pages report on Precision Instruments.

This is Mizuho's breakdown of the DSLR manufacturers by volume (with 2008 estimates):
> > D-SLR volume 2008E (2007/2006)
> Canon 4,200 (3,350/2,660)
> Nikon 3,700 (3,090/2,090)
> Sony 1,230 (400/400)
> Olympus 450 (500/250)
> Pentax 190 (350/300)
> Panasonic 130 (20/20)
> > Total Japanese 9,900 (7,710/5,725)

Overall, DSLRs grew by some 28.4 pct.


Those figures of volume transform into these percental shares:

> > D-SLR shares 2008E (2007/2006)
> Canon 42.4 (43.5/46.5)
> Nikon 37.4 (40.1/36.5)
> Sony 12.4 (5.2/7.0)
> Olympus 4.5 (6.5/4.4)
> Pentax 1.9 (4.5/5.2)
> Panasonic 1.3 (0.3/0.3)
> > Total Japanese 100.0 (100.0/100.0)

[alphaomega]

DSLR Volume provided by A1000 above

This is Mizuho's breakdown of the DSLR manufacturers by volume (with 2008 estimates):
> > D-SLR volume 2008E (2007/2006)
> Canon 4,200 (3,350/2,660)
> Nikon 3,700 (3,090/2,090)
> Sony 1,230 (400/400)
> Olympus 450 (500/250)
> Pentax 190 (350/300)
> Panasonic 130 (20/20)
> > Total Japanese 9,900 (7,710/5,725)

Presumably three 0s are missing from these figures? I assume Canon's 2008 volume of DSLRs should be 4,200,000 etc. Sony still has a long way to go to become No. 2 but it is interesting to see the decline of Olympus and Pentax in particular. Panasonic are doing rather better. I read the review of the Panasonic G1 in Amateur Photographer here in Britain and it would appear that Panasonic may be on to something with their small SLR based on 4/3 and with an electronic viewfinder much superior to that found in Sony's DSC-R1. Lens variety will be an issue though. Their kit lens at 14-45 does not appeal to me as I need 12-60 to match my CZ 16-80 (to give 24-120 in 35 mm)

[peterottaway]

On the Panasonic G1, the best price I could find for the dual lens kit was AUD 1761 whilst the Sony A 350 dual lens kit was AUD 1113 including tax. A dual lens Pentax 20D kit is AUD 1349.

I think Panasonic will have problems generating sales even if Sony increase their prices in the new year.

[alphaomega]

peterottaway wrote:

On the Panasonic G1, the best price I could find for the dual lens kit was AUD 1761 whilst the Sony A 350 dual lens kit was AUD 1113 including tax. A dual lens Pentax 20D kit is AUD 1349.
I think Panasonic will have problems generating sales even if Sony increase their prices in the new year.

The point about the Panasonic G1 is that it is not a DSLR such as the A350 and 20D. The G1 is a camera presented as one delivering DSLR quality in nearing a P&S body. In other words an enthusiast or professional woud carry the G1 if the DSLR kit is left at home. I am not sure if it will work out and the price will definitely have to come down as has happened with all other new releases. This is effectively a new format and Panasonic have clearly left the standard DSLR "battlefield" and tried to carve out a new niche for themselves.

[A1000]

Watch out Sonolta, Sony pays me to get a guy with certain very unpleasant looks

[KevinBarrett]

A buddy of mine just ordered his 5D Mk II and believes the black dots are due to using highlight tone priority during night shots. Apparently you aren't supposed to do that, but if that is the case, then the black dot problem is easily avoided. We'll see, and for his sake, I hope he is right.

[A1000]

These are very serious imiging problems, hot pixels in video, black spots, hot pixels in still images, purple fringing around pixels, outdated focus system. All I can say is that with all the DSLR cameras Sony introduced, none, as far as I remember, had any serious design or quality flaws, and the Canon sells at over $3K. Look at reliability of Canon video cameras over the years, compared to Sony, look at their low light performance vs. Sony's. It is different class of products.

I recommend Canon to concentrate more on what they are good at, like office products, and expand their peoduct line to office bathroom accessories. Even their pro video lenses are inferior to Fuji.

And Sonolta, relax, try to take a joke.

[A1000]

Sonolta, I think that you are after my good looks.

[A1000]

Thanks. I'm glad you calmed dowmn after being love-struck by my handsome looks. But yes, you are right, Canon is a lot more of an optical company than Sony. But Sony is a lot more of an imaging company than Canon. And Sony is with Ziess, and Zeiss is known for better glass than Canon. While Sony is now beginning to chalenge Canon in DSLR's, Canon can't even chalenge Sony in prosumer video cameras, and prosumer is where Canon stops. Check Mavica and you'll see who lead this digital camera industry on the beginning.

[A1000]

Minolta's digital camera heritage + Sony's digital camera heritage = curent Sony digital camera division. Add to it Sony video division supremacy and you'll get Sony's advantage in the rapid convergence of photo and video technologies.

[A1000]

It's optics and electronics now. Electronics replaced most of mechanical stuff. Optics is something that has been more or less perfected. With enough resources a number of companies can make good optics. The electronic portion gives an edge to a company. That is why Sony, Panasonic, and Samsung will all become major forces in photography, maybe JVC will too join them. Canon is advanced in electronics. Olympus, Pentax, and Nikon are not at all major electronic companies. The first two will be gone sooner or later, probably will follow the K-M lead. Nikon is such a strong brand that I'm sure it will survive.

I see the future DSLR market share as follows:

30% Canon
25% Sony
20% Nikon
15% Panasonic
10% Samsung

[bossel]

A1000 your pic is ugly so I don't belive you anything

[alphaomega]

I think that A1000 is a bit rough around the edges and is a bit "sharper" in his comments that at least I am used to in this Forum. He is also more a Sony than a K-M/Alpha fan boy. His picture has been doctored. Maybe he will reveal if it is to annoy or frighten us or he has some other purpose in mind.

Having said all that about our distinguished newcomer there is something in what he is saying. I also believe that if Sony stay the course they will achieve their objective of becoming No. 2 in DSLRs. I am not so sure about Samsung but they should never be underrated. Oly & Pentax are slowly on their way out for sure as independent companies. Pentax may eventually be swallowed up by Samsung. I think Panasonic are on to something with their G1 and A1000 hinted that Sony may be following with an A50 and APS-C instead of 4/3. If anyone can produce a workable electronic viewfinder surely that would be Sony. Panasonic may take over Oly at some stage. Notwithstanding the squeals in the Nikon Forum Nikon will continue to be dependent on sensors from Sony whatever spin they put on it unless they jump to one of the other electronic giants, but then they will not get FF developments.

My personal gut feeling is that A1000's numbers above will probably be in the ballpark in five years time.
Canon
Sony incorporating K-M.
Nikon
Panasonic incorporating Oly.
Samsung incorporating Pentax and maybe Hoya

Interesting times ahead.

[A1000]

His picture has been doctored. Maybe he will reveal if it is to annoy or frighten us or he has some other purpose in mind.

But you must admit that I have great tripod-style teeth and F.95 fisheyes. The picture is me. I don't know why I have been kicked up and around in school a lot by classmates jealous of my size 60 shoes.

[A1000]

My personal gut feeling is that A1000's numbers above will probably be in the ballpark in five years time.
Canon
Sony incorporating K-M.
Nikon
Panasonic incorporating Oly.
Samsung incorporating Pentax and maybe Hoya

Interesting times ahead.

It'll be no longer optical companies, but electronic ones that will primarily be making cameras. No one would believe it 30 years ago.

What is interesting is that Sony, Panasonic, and Samsung lenses will include 3 German labels - Zeiss, Leica, Schneider, some 50 years after these brands nearly vanished from the camera market.