What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

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destrian
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What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by destrian »

CMOS's that allow up to 8000th sec flash sync?
100% Zero Noise?
Solid State Drives Built into the upper end DSLRs?
Wireless file transfer built in?
Transfer Jet Built in?
Live View in all DSLRs?
Radio Signal to control flash?
GPS Built in (Rather useless if you ask me.)?

Chime in ppl? Did I miss any potential winners?
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Dr. Harout
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by Dr. Harout »

I guess close to the second with their new reverse sensor (I think that's what it was named).
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by bakubo »

Fix the A700 sleep mode bug when eyestart is turned off? :)

Fix the inferior jpegs? :)
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bfitzgerald
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

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To hire a customer service team that "responds" to email form submissions?

Ok I am OT, here, but wow..what terrible customer support!
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by PhotoTraveler »

Fully built in GPS would be the most useful thing to me. Most the rest of your list is pretty worthless for me. There is zero reason all DSLRs don't come with it built in. It cost next to nothing to do. Is done with just about all decent Cell phones today. And the value in photo-management and record keeping is massive. It irks me to no end that Sony doesn't have this when others do (at least plug in), and sony has so many other GPS products. Even if they come out with a TS lens tomorrow, me buying a A900 is questionable because of this just plain dumb oversight in design. Might be waiting for the next one or just still go nikon.

I don't think Innovation is the right word for most things. As most of the possibly things have been done by someone, or the idea has been long since out there. Or when it happens is not un-expected. It's more of "integration". What does Sony put in their future models they don't have now, that they should, or everyone should. I haven't seen anyone bring out anything innovative in a while. Body stabilization, and sonic sensor cleaning a probably the most recent real examples.
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by A1000 »

destrian wrote:CMOS's that allow up to 8000th sec flash sync?
100% Zero Noise?
Solid State Drives Built into the upper end DSLRs?
Wireless file transfer built in?
Transfer Jet Built in?
Live View in all DSLRs?
Radio Signal to control flash?
GPS Built in (Rather useless if you ask me.)?

Chime in ppl? Did I miss any potential winners?
One of the reasons Sony got heavily into DSLR's is because they believe that they have an edge in sensor technology development and that future DSLR's will combine video and photo function with a sensor with high speed electronic shutter, which will be part of the sensor, just like it is in video cameras. It will be dome in a similar, but more advanced way to the way Sony implemented in its sensor that is used by the Casio still-video camera.

Back iluminated sensors will come first with smaller sensor sizes.

Expect little innovation from Sony until these two technologies are developed and then Sony will introduce truly revolutionary cameras with functions unheard of today. Until then expect Sony just coasting along, making improvements to their current models, coming out with some new ones; nothing revolutionary.

The revolution will come suddenly and it will change the way we take picture. At that time Sony may quickly become No. 1 selling brand. Sports/news photographers especially will be switching to Sony, which at that time will have a lot more lenses, fully compatible with high density sensors.
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by KevinBarrett »

GPS could be built in or available through an accessory vertical grip. It would be more suitable for the grip, as it would be a drain on the battery and might necessitate an on-off switch.

Radio controlled flash would be superb...bluetooth is the perfect technology for that, I believe. My $40 xbox remote has blue-tooth connectivity quick enough for fast-twitch racing games. Sony's current method looks like the stone age in comparisson.

WIFI connectivity should be in the camera--if it can fit in an SD card, there's no reason it shouldn't be in a $1200 camera body.

Perhaps in-camera HDR could be an attractive feature for entry-level models. Enthusiasts or Pros, or anybody that shoots RAW, wouldn't have a need for this, however.
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

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The grip is the absolute worste place for GPS and should not be considered EVER!

First, and foremost, the people who want GPS are some of the last people who will want a grip. As GPS people are the outdoor people. The only reason a person should be forced to get a grip is if they want a grip. The Grip should not be a method of adding functionality. If Sony comes out with GPS and puts it in the grip, that's an end game and I'm moving out of the system.

Second, GPS does not suck power. Your hand held GPS might, but it's a full blown GPS. Integrated GPS isn't like that. Minimal power consumption and still, it's no big deal. GPS gets built into everything now. I have a GPS watch, it can track for hours with it's little battery. And stuff built into phones is even better. Also about a year ago a company announced a GPS chip very specifically designed for embedding into devices like Cameras, that consumes next to nothing on power. In the same article about it the writer had asked reps from various camera companies and all of them including Sony talked about how in the coming year GPS would be the big thing and in almost all cameras. I think the nikon P6000 might be uses that chip.

Canon messed up and put the input for a GPS into the grip, and thus no one in Canon land uses GPS. Nikon made it and input, and now has gone further and made their own GPS folks can buy and pop on their camera hotshoe and plug in. 200 bucks and a person is good to go. The next step is to just imbed that into the whole camera top. If they can make a whole unit, with all the extra cost in doing that for 200, they can embed it in the camera for a magnitude less easy.

Seeing how they built GPS into the P6000, it's just a matter of time till they go all out. Maybe this is why Sony hasn't reacted yet. They may be working on jumping straight to a fully embedded solution.

Putting things into grips or forcing people to go to add on's is never good. Look how much love Sony has got for their removal of the flash on the A900 with no built in alternative.
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by PhotoTraveler »

2 links for now. I can't find the one that had the Sony persons comments.

http://www.gpsbusinessnews.com/index.ph ... numero=621

and

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9868159-39.html

It's coming and it's going to work well.
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by PhotoTraveler »

Another method, pretty interesting, but I think I much prefer there be no post software. But at the end it does show the power of having GPS. Auto tagging of photos and such.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRaZ0yJpNyk
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by KevinBarrett »

You have a good point on the vertical grip/GPS thing. A hotshoe mounted GPS (if it can't be integrated into the body) would make even more sense, if only for the basic orientation of the thing! Of course I would love to see all of the functionality imaginable built into the camera body, but I keep my VG on all of the time anyway, so the obvious impracticality of the idea didnt occur to me.

One thing I'd like to see for the vertical grips is two unique programmable buttons instead of duplicate "C" and "Fn" buttons. That would definitely enhance the value and utility of it.
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by destrianlives »

Truthfully, I'm shocked that finding where you've taken your photos is more important that actually taking better photos to you guys. :D Me, I'd like 500th second flash sync, better noise and definitely wireless file transfer. If I could get those three at the same time... I'd be worth another $700 on the A900 to me hands down.
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

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Interesting points being made above. I am just a retired shooter submitting mostly landscape, cityscape and architectural images of wherever I go to Alamy. I now use my A700 and A350 depending on the need for speed or LV usage. My dream camera remains the same, namely an upgraded A700 with an APS-C sensor of 17.5 Mp with excellent noise performance up to at least ISO400. It should incorporate all the current A700 functionality plus a 3" version of the A350 type LV and the articulated rear screen. This LV should have an enlarging function to allow for easier MF. 5 frames/s in RAW is fine for me. Basically I want Sony to develop an APS-C CMOS sensor of around 17.5 Mp that performs as well as the current A700 sensor on a pixel for pixel basis. This will allow me to use my Sigma 10-20 mm (or maybe the Tamron 10-24 if the reviews justify it) as "substitute" T&S lens by taking the image through the Photoshop lens filter and still allow a decent image after cropping. It will also allow me a 48 Mb processed image without upsizing and only minimal cropping.

Basically I am looking for an A700 upgrade with greater pixel density but at least the same pixel IQ and noise performance and the A350 LV improved and enlarged to 3". To me that would be the ultimate camera as I do not plan to migrate to FF. Any additions such as video, GPS etc. might be welcome but I am afraid I would not view positively a load of gimmicks that would put the camera out of my price range.
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

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Someday I will put together an article that articulates and explains it all better, but for now...

See the following link of one image from this website, the whole thing is good.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/5073?size=_original

This whole site is perfect for my point. If I just showed you that photo, you might just think, "nice shot", there just wouldn't be much there. It's the place and date that makes it come alive. Now you go from a photo, to being transported to a place and time. Now with the info below the photo, you look at it and go "ah, LA, and 1960, so that's what 1960 looked like, in that place". It's a completely different photo. And in that photo, even without the info, you might guess the place, and you might guess the timeframe based on the ladies in the photo. But many many photos even on that site, you can't tell where it was, or when. You could be off by decades on your guess (real early color photo shots will really throw you).

Soon as that other info is added, it changes everything, now there is a story, the image is a living history book, not just a snap shot of something. To me a photo is empty without the time and place, only 1/3rd of the story or soul of the image is there. It will never have the same connection as photos on that site have.

And if you don't have it at capture, it's lost. Remember shooting with film, carrying around a note pad, writing down lens, shutter, aperture, time, place. Then having to get that all linked up with your photos later on, writing it all on the back. What a pain in the bum that was. Then EXIF came and changed it all. Now it's increadible tool. And people even get in arguments over images when it's not included.

I get angry just finding I had the date wrong on the camera, as it now is messed up history. But now that I don't have location, it's still 1/3rd missing. You can't go back. You most likely may never know where it was taken. You forgot where it was, so on and so forth. If it wasn't done automatically at capture, it's nearly good as gone. But with GPS, it's there, it's locked into the photo from the start. No more having to remember, our tools can do it for us. And even help us massively in adding more info, or learning more about what we took.

I think what many people miss is they think about a photo in the right now sense. Well, the date and time of a photo you take today doesn't matter right now. It takes time. The time of a photo doesn't start to really matter for probably 15-20 years. Then it hits you more. Now you are looking back at a different era, a different generation. That's where it hits. And the place has a very big impact too, as it can be surprising, and make you think about it different. So from the same site, the follow photo which I find a bit entrancing, maybe because it is so to my point.

Image

So you look at it and think, ok, 1960's photo of a girl in the UK. Might make you think a few things, and such. But then I tell you I lied. It's not 1960. This is shot in 1915! This is nearly 100 years old, and looks like anyone could have taken this of their daughter today and converted to B&W. Now you get thinking. And further, it wasn't the UK, it was washington DC. Now what you thought just shifted again some. Now your brain starts to take it in. This girl, is before most the history of the 20th century. After this, she most likely grew up, married, would have seen her sons fight in WWII, her grand children go to Vietnam, Watched the moon landing as an older woman, been retired, watched great grand kids and so forth and now she most likely has passed away of old. Out side that house she is in, is probably a horse someplace close. She lived before nuclear, before space travel, before the computer.. And the moments of her life and what unfolds is completely different. The above would have been different had it said the UK, or Germany. Even if I had said LA instead of DC, it would have invoked different thoughts. Everything changes with Time and Place. This story has a soul, it is a portal through time with so much back story simply because 2 pieces of information are with it. The quality of the image begins to matter much less, though it's pretty good for the time. The gear used doesn't matter very much, though many would be curious (it was a glass plate by the way).

Without a place and a time, this would be just a photo in a box. Looking at it wouldn't mean anything to people. A lot of folks would say something about the bird moving some "should have used a faster shutter" "clearly not a pro" "he thought a shot like this was salable? that's as dumb as the guy shooting santas on parade". Well, 100 years later it's a very different shot.

This is why Time and Place matter. It's what makes the photo. Of course if your shooting some product shot for a mag, no one probably cares. Though if I saw just the photo 50 years later, I would want to know when it's from and such. I also find the persons name can change it. You probably have one expectation of this girls name, but what if it was something russian sounding. That would add mystery too it. So for a shot of models, the name of the model may be what adds so much to the photo in time. Especially decades later when maybe the family of that person does a search and here is a model of their mother as a young woman, now that's something for that person.

We have had the tech for years to do GPS. It provide a critical part of what a photo is. And the fact it's not available in every camera just simply sickens me. If I had gone nikon when I was debating A700 verses D300 to replace my 7D it would have been so different now for me. But even still, we can do much better than what Nikon does. I would strip out a lot of stuff in a camera to have GPS in it, LV, video, scene modes, etc, none of them add to the story of the photo. Photography is so much more than the image. An image without the rest is pretty much nothing. An Ansel Adams print just wouldn't be the same without the date and place they all have. His like so many other things transport you. "Moonrise over some town" year unknown. Just doesn't have the same impact.
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Dr. Harout
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Re: What would be the next logical innovation for Sony DSLRs?

Unread post by Dr. Harout »

Very interesting PhotoTraveler. I agree on one part, that is the date and location are quite important and necessary, but on the other hand sometimes the picture has to speak for itself, no data needed.
Eventually, yes, having GPS wouldn't harm, but the opposite might, not 'would' but 'might'.
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