The "INFO" key or "INFO" Menu selection

[DonSchap]

Professionally, I have been with IT (Information Technology) for a real good number of years and understand that documentation can be compressed quite nicely in little files within media. One of the aspects of digital cameras that I believe are NOT being used to its fullest is this ability to recall these files and display them on the camera’s LCD or an additional LCD screen.

Consider this:

How about a complete tutorial (at selected levels: beginning/advanced) built into every single camera (& the entire user’s manual & more) and displayable through the camera’s rear LCD or out to additional video through the USB or Video Out jack? Cool, huh?

Imagine, other "downloadable" material (from the manufacturer) that can augment the additional lenses or the flash units you use, to help you get the most out of their operation? (Third party support or OEM). Personally, I would love to have this just to be able to quickly reference answers to questions and other routine questions we field.

Any discussion or additional thoughts would be appreciated. I feel this is a real cool and doable idea, for all future upgrades or cameras, no matter what manufacturer … or language.

(It appears that Nikon may have something similar in the D300 camera, that I have been recently informed of ... so I guess it is nothing new ... but, SONY does NOT have it ... and I would like to see it put into every intro-DSLR they make as, at least, a MENU option.)

[Dusty]

While information can be readily compressed, both the creation of that information in compressed form and a method of display can add greatly to the cost. Camera LCD displays aren't optimized for use as readers, and the addition of decompression engines and display/menuing mechanisms would add much to the cost.

Need info on your Alpha? Do like I do, slip the owners manual into the outer pocket of your camera bag. Its small.

Dusty

[DonSchap]

I think using the Alpha Series like you would the EPSON P-3000 would be very cool. Let's face it ... with the JPG level of 2.7 to 3 inch display ... you could probably develop some usable/useful text level to make it work. Cost wise ... that seems a bit trivial. I suggest we try getting it done, rather than dismissing it as undoable. If Nikon can crank one out ... SONY should own it. LOL

You see, I'm not holding up the bony, accusatory finger and asking "WHY NOT?" LOL Hardly ... I'm asking the reflective and anticipatory question: "WHEN?"

[DonSchap]

I guess I'm a little surprised this idea is not getting more traction. Then again, if you know it all - DON - why bother, right?

[Javelin]

I lost the reply I posted to this last night. but why not this. Get te PDF of the users manual and convert each page to jpg and put it on a directory on each of your memory sticks and just pull up what you need right on the camera. (you may have to phoptograph the pages if there isnt a trick to get external jps to show up on the camera)

[jcoffin]

While information can be readily compressed, both the creation of that information in compressed form and a method of display can add greatly to the cost. Camera LCD displays aren't optimized for use as readers, and the addition of decompression engines and display/menuing mechanisms would add much to the cost.

Need info on your Alpha? Do like I do, slip the owners manual into the outer pocket of your camera bag. Its small.

Dusty

I doubt it would take much to add methods for display at all. They already have code to display menus, so displaying text is clearly already present. JPEGs use Huffman compression, so they could pretty trivially re-use the Huffman de-compression routine on the text. Huffman compression (but itself) isn't as effective as something like LZW, but it's still works reasonably well. For that matter, LZW decompression can be implemented in around 80 bytes of code for a typical processor, and the code for it is well known, so it wouldn't take much to add that either/as well.

Preparing the text would also be pretty trivial -- if you wanted to, you could just re-use the text from the current manual(s), with the table of contents displayed as a menu.

Most of this would simply be matter of reusing what they've already got, not inventing anything really new or different.

[Javelin]

The cameras already have compression for C-raw built in. that would probably work just fine on text. the thing is... how often would peopple actually use that? people don't even pop their paper manuals open to look something up.

[DonSchap]

unfortunately, that sounds like a "dodge" to the issue. I contend that there are plenty of people who quietly do go to their instruction manual and find their solutions ... or at least attempt to. You just do not hear from them. All you usually hear from are the offenders who cannot seem to find their reading glasses and are constantly asking the routine and ho-hum "how do I ...?"

Anyway, despite that argument ... an INFO key would be incredibly handy, in the field (or elsewhere), when you get handed a "strange" (unfamiliar) camera (w/ no manual) and the "HELP" (or "INFO") key is clearly marked and available to anyone using the camera. It should be so USEFUL, that the only question that needs to be asked, if any, is "Where is the INFO button?"

I guess I mean, how silly, in this day and age, where trees are a declining resource, that here we have a convenience (the digital camera) totally capable of containing (and keeping current) such a simple and concise support method ... and there's NOTHING but the dog-eared ol' paper book, which could be lost, over time. Once this type of functionality is in such cameras, it would have to be cheaper than having to produce millions of printed pages that, according to some , "NEVER get read."

[Javelin]

We started putting out our machine manuals onCD and now USB drives. these are pretty big machines and the CDs went in a little enclosure marked documentation. The stuff is all there when a customer buys a machine every piece of info I have for the machine is there. they should never have to call. the problem is I still get people that want to buy a paper manual for them. I guess for some its just not convenient to have the electronics to read that out on the floor.. Usual practice in in my shop is original manuals don't go out of the engineering office the guys take photo copies out to work with their greasy hands. When I was a mechanic I did the same thing and I guess thats how people are used to working. I can see working with a camera that you need to have an answer on being hard to use. for example.

User wants to shoot a bird.. looks in the manual and theres a section how to shoot a bird. except he can't use the manual and the camera at the same time because the camera IS the manual so he has to memorize the instruction before setting up the camera. I know when I first got my A200 I sat with the manual open and the camera in my hand at the same time. Thats not saying that the built in manual wouldn't be usefully I just don't think people would accept not having a paper version for something this complex. I know the built in help on software saved that industry a LOT of money but it wasn't very popular with users even though most systems allow 2 windows to be open at the same time and the help window doesn't impede the functionality of the main application

[Dr. Harout]

Don, you're probably right. Sometimes you might encounter a blinking light or item on the menu and the manual is not with you. At least you could check it out in the "Troubleshooting" section of the manual, I mean in the camera, from the menu or better, as Don pointed it, from a separate key.

[DonSchap]

I tell ya, for now, I would appreciate a modification (ver 5) of a menu option until the new model release. I know this is a simple issue, if someone would just put some time into it. A dynamite "inner" manual could be an awesome selling point, on the sales floor. Further on, a mode of training for the next person you hand your camera to.

[Greg Beetham]

Thinking about it, all of the necessary screens shown in the manual are already in the camera so they needn't be duplicated in a seperate on screen manual, all they need to do is add an extra sub menu "help" icon (the usual one and a good and distinctive one is a blue circle with a white question mark) displayed next to each menu setting that you can right arrow over to and press "enter" on, this brings up the context sensitive help screen on that menu choice, the "exit" on the help page is already highlighted to press "enter" on that returns you back to the settings screen...I wouln't mind having something like that in a new camera.
Greg
ps you could even have a menu choice on whether you want the help menu icons too be displayed or not, once you become familiar with the camera the continual referring to the help section become less and less necessary, but is still available if needed.

[jcoffin]

User wants to shoot a bird.. looks in the manual and theres a section how to shoot a bird. except he can't use the manual and the camera at the same time because the camera IS the manual so he has to memorize the instruction before setting up the camera. I know when I first got my A200 I sat with the manual open and the camera in my hand at the same time. Thats not saying that the built in manual wouldn't be usefully I just don't think people would accept not having a paper version for something this complex. I know the built in help on software saved that industry a LOT of money but it wasn't very popular with users even though most systems allow 2 windows to be open at the same time and the help window doesn't impede the functionality of the main application

Go a step further: link to the right menu options from the on-camera manual, so it'll tell you what kinds of settings you want, and help you make them from there. Better still, it can do so based on live data so (for example) it can make recommendations based on the current lens and light level, not just a long list of "if X then do Y" kinds of things. If you wanted to get really elaborate, you could add things like selecting what lenses you own so it could help the user select the best lens for the situation and target. Of course, that wouldn't replace a real expert photographer, but it go a long ways toward helping beginners get decent pictures and (particularly) make the step from P&S to SLR a bit less traumatic for some.

Alternatively, they could just work on making menu entries that are more understandable for beginners. Right now, in some cases it's difficult to relate some options back to the menu text, even after you know what the setting does and when/how to use it.

[DonSchap]

Hey Dave ... I know you are reading over your shoulder ... weigh in on this and make a suggestion to SONY, eh? I think they are listening to you. Me, I'm a veg.

[DonSchap]

If you folks (guys and gals) might have missed it, SONY Style has a forum up and going ... and on it, I have placed the proposal for the "INFO" option for the MENU button. It seems to be a pretty active discussion and I am hoping to get some support from everyone (yes, one and all ... I need your help with this if it is ever going to become reality) to convince "The Mind of SONY" that this might be a decent idea for the NEXT firmware revision.

I truly believe there is enough existing hardware in the Alpha cameras to support a Depth of Field (DOF) Calculator feature. There probably has been since the Minolta 7D, they just didn't add it to the screens or firmware options (it probably will require an ADI-equipped lens, sorry).

So please ... I ask for your support in getting this FINALLY done in ALL our cameras. It seems a silly waste not to have it.

Here's the thread (<- click here) ... I believe it is a good read ... and supporting comments are sincerely appreciated.

Thanks folks