Sony and The Future

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Alpha1000

Sony and The Future

Unread postby Alpha1000 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:23 pm

Here are my thoughts.

Future of TV is 4K (8 MP) 3D. Prior to that it's 3D 2K. BluRay now is 1080p (2K).

As display technology will in the future be superior to the print technology, in most instances, pictures will be then presented on 3D HDTV screens. So cameras will be 3D. At least most of them.

Most future video cameras will be 3D. Still cameras will follow.

DSLR's have 2 major problems: 1. Mirror that slows down the frame rate. 2. Mirror that causes long "lens to sensor plane" distance.

So APSC DSLR's will be replaced by EVIL cameras in the future - with electronic shutter and high frame rates. Sony new prototype 3D video camera uses frame rate 240 fps at 2x2 MP.

Sony sees the tough established competition of Canikon, with unfair test reports of their cameras and other unfair negative PR techniques, including badmouthing of their system in a major forum, etc. The same people come here, although the number may have diminished to one now. On the major forum they have multiple personalities - nicks. In Canikon forums it would not be tolerated.

Sony knows that by eliminating the mirror, a superior system could be developed. Sony is in the forefront of display technology, unlike Conikon, so it can produce better EVF than the competition - a VF that will not go dark with the push of DOF preview button, or when it's dark outside. It will also zoom and allow for easier manual focusing. Add OLCD's. The OVF suddenly loses its strength. If Panasonic, Olympus, and Samsung are working on EVIL, so is Sony. Look at their past and you will understand. Also this is the only explanation for the gap between the 300 and the 900 series, as the 500 series is only an extension of the 300 series. The 850 is only an extension of the 900 series.

It is my belief that Sony will fill the gap between A550 and A850 with a superior EVIL system, maybe with 14 and 18 MP bodies, which will be, with an adapter, usable with A-mount lenses .

APSC will be phased out in time. Current FF will be expanded up and down.

If Sony planned to bring out A700 replacement, it would be here by now. The hole in product offering between FF and APSC has existed in Japan now for some time. This is not normal. Sony is dumping A700 even in India, where it has otherwise hardly any presence.

Sony created, from their A200-350 line, the two new lines, one is the 500 line. There is no 700 camera (line) replacement. The APSC lens offering is weak, although APSC is the Sony's bread and butter.

Few FF's are sold, but all new serious lens offerings are FF.

EVIL camera can have same or better resolution as FF, because of less diffraction. The lenses will be smaller. The cameras will be lighter and can be smaller.

EVIL will make APSC redundant. FF will still have an advantage in DOF control and sensitivity. You need to have it to demonstrate that you play with the big boys.

I see it as follows:

Now 2 lines:
230-550
850-900

later 3 lines:
100-550 (the 100 series will have no OVF)
EVIL 14 and 18 MP models to fill the gap between FF and APSC
800 - 1000

later 3 lines:
100-550
EVIL (2 series, 4 models)
800 - 1000

later 3 lines:
EVIL basic to full pro lines
EVIL 3D
FF

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KevinBarrett
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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby KevinBarrett » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:47 pm

Alpha1000 wrote:Sony sees the tough established competition of Canikon, with unfair test reports of their cameras and other unfair negative PR techniques, including badmouthing of their system in a major forum, etc. The same people come here, although the number may have diminished to one now.


I wonder who he is! :shock:
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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:19 pm

Alpha1000's post is sensible speculation - there is no doubt at all that the future lies in EVIL (or at least EVF, as today's interchangeable lenses may one day be rendered obsolete by diffraction-based optics with a huge range and very compact size). It also lies in 3D, this is already in the industry's plan for computers, TV, games, the lot. In ten years we won't recognise today's visual technology.

David

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby Allam2009 » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:18 pm

Alpha1000 wrote:There is no 700 camera (line) replacement.


There will be one - not sure exactly when but it is coming
A700 - 18-200 - 70-300G - 28F2.8 - 30M2.8

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby alphaomega » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:57 pm

Some of you may remember my thread entitled "Is this A1000 appearing on dyxum.com? Have a look!". If you read A1000's insert above I am sure you will agree that nocanon on Dyxum is identical to A1000 on Photoclubalpha. I actually thought, when reading his Dyxum contribution that A1000 does have som inside knowledge. Going to EVIL or EVF is exactly what one would expect Sony to do. It will be interesting to see how things develop. I will still purchase the A550 when the price sinks to £500 here in UK but I may purchase a Sony EVIL model sometime in the future to replace my Panasonic LX2/3. The EVF needs to be much better than those available at the moment. Surely the Panasonic/Oly models currently available are nowhere perfect and perish the thought that they will be not much better than the R1. I would be looking for a bright large finder with no delay or smudging of fast moving objects to be tempted to switch away from OVF supplemented by LV on the screen.

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:30 am

I better stock up on OVF cameras, because I simply cannot get my head around EVF's!
Just do not want a pre processed image in the VF, so I would be unlikely to ever buy one.
Would not be shocked to see companies moving in this direction, which is a shame really..

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby bakubo » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:37 am

bfitzgerald wrote:I better stock up on OVF cameras, because I simply cannot get my head around EVF's!
Just do not want a pre processed image in the VF, so I would be unlikely to ever buy one.
Would not be shocked to see companies moving in this direction, which is a shame really..


An SLR may not be best then either. Look around for some of the old cameras that just had a wire frame for a viewfinder. The ultimate in unprocessed vf. :)

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:52 pm

I've been chewing over this!

http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlae ... ome_e.html

Back to basics, and they have some very nice lenses too.

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby Dusty » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:44 pm

The problem with buying a new (and expensive) film camera is that in 5-10 years you may not be able to find film!

I switched to digital in '07 when a friend asked me to shoot his daughter's wedding. I went down to the pro shop to get the latest price list and was told they no longer did film! Only one Pro developer in St. Louis will still develop c-41, and another will do E-6, but we're running out of options. You can always have Wal-Mart develop the film, and then get it printed elsewhere, but will they still do 120 film? I can only get one shop to do 4x5, and I'm not sure they don't stack them to do runs.

Don't get me wrong, I still love film, but then again I still like V-8's that have Carburetors and Distributors! Can't get them these days, either.

I don't think that the OVF will go away any time soon for pro level cameras, but if they take off well on entry-mid level DSLRs, we may not have semi-pro or enthusiast level DSLRs as an option anymore. It the 850 is the 700 replacement, that's a foreshadowing of the end of that genre of DSLR.

Dusty

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Dusty, I can't agree more.

Unread postby Yagil Henkin » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:00 pm

When I switched to digital in early 2008, my choices for E-6 developing went down to one lab, which charges now something like 14$ to develop a roll (sometimes i get a discount to 'only' 12$). this is more than twice of the older price, and made slide development for me to pricey - one roll, buying + developing, is now 20 dollars. Film is becoming not only niche product, but a very costly niche - at least for me. Had i continued to use slides from 2008 until now, even when taking into account the fact that I take more pictures with digital than with film, the film alone would have cost me more than an A700 (perhaps, with a good lens too!). I still love film - its just not economically practical anymore.

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:30 pm

I pay €3 for a developed roll of 35mm colour print film, IMO..that's not expensive. No need for prints, I scan the negs myself, and print what I like from that, around 30 mins turnaround. Slides is a different story.

So for me yes it is economical enough. I could sit here and say well for how much I spent on film and processing costs= xyz camera, but I simply feel..If you get the results, and like them, it's worth every penny.
Landscape and people shots are not high volume, least not for me..I struggle to finish off a roll of 36, I like that..and I like not seeing what I got until later, it's that anticipation that really hits the spot ;-)

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby Javelin » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:09 pm

Low and behold here is a little review of that very camera. I just ran across

http://thepicturedesk.blogspot.com/

He's an interesting photographer too. check his galleries
http://www.thepicturedesk.ca/default2.asp


bfitzgerald wrote:I've been chewing over this!

http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlae ... ome_e.html

Back to basics, and they have some very nice lenses too.

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby Old Hydro » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:45 am

Allam2009 wrote:
Alpha1000 wrote:There is no 700 camera (line) replacement.


There will be one - not sure exactly when but it is coming



The a850 is the replacement. Read this:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/ne ... ml?aff=rss

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby Javelin » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:17 am

Well I called Sony support in Toronto again today to inquire about getting focus adjusted on my A700 and 70-300G My A200 nails focus every time with this lens and the A700 doesn't. the call was very enlightening. First they will do it under warranty whether I bought it in the US or not. Canadian warranty is 24 months US is 12 so I got a little extra value there. I thought they did me a favour when I flooded it but it seems it's a matter of policy. I still have to test the lens and camera to be sure if it's really doing what I think it is (I also think the shots aren't straight so it's god to know it's under warranty if the shake mechanism needs to be replaced. I asked about the focus screens. they are in stock in Toronto. if it turn out that the only think it needs is the focus screen they don't want to do it there and prefer I dealt with E-link. (this is an authorized repair depot that previously couldn't do DSLRs) So not being sure if I have a problem or not I called e-link and spoke with one of the reps there. They will charge by the hour for cleaning, adjusting focus, putting in screens and stuff like that and parts separate where Sony themselves is only flat rate for repairs. but since all these cameras are still warrantied they all go to Sony corporate regardless so they don't have proper prices yet. so it seems there is an option coming soon for after warranty service for small things at least. Anyway the point of my story is, when the rep was looking me up and checking on the focus screen parts the rep accidentally looked up an A750 and the type M screen part number didn't match exactly what I had given them and they actually asked me if I had an A700 or A750. to which I asked if they had an A750 listed there .. the Rep clammed up then and wouldn't talk about anything they had previously said on the subject and just told me about the A700. This could have been just an accident or a typo. but it seemed like the rep was looking at real information while they spoke. So I believe there is an A750 imminent.

Sorry if this reads funny. I went back and degenderized it (thats my word) because I thought the rep might get in trouble if they could figure out who it was I spoke with. And they were very helpfull.

Now where is my tripod..

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Re: Sony and The Future

Unread postby Allam2009 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:03 pm

Old Hydro wrote:The a850 is the replacement. Read this:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/ne ... ml?aff=rss


Actually that article says the 850 is aimed at 700 users wanting to move up to full frame. At no point does it say that the 850 is a replacement for the 700.
A700 - 18-200 - 70-300G - 28F2.8 - 30M2.8


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