A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

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bfitzgerald
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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:02 pm

Previews are just that information for readers and "not conclusions" most of the comments in that preview were heavily biased, and many open to debate anyway.
DPR have no way of knowing if "most people" who have ever tried an SLT camera liked them of not, it's a throwaway comment and reflects of the amateurish nature of their reviews lately.

Printer reviews..well how about lenses and flashguns? Both are an awful lot more useful to reader.

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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby alphaomega » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:20 pm

edrice, you are wasting your time arguing with Barry Fitzgerald. He has his opinions and much is required to change these. He feels so strongly about them that, although he has now switched to Nikon (through Pentax) he still feels an urge to come here to express his opinions about Sony's latest misdeeds.
Don't misunderstand me as I like reading Barry's comments and he is actually quite knowledgeable and make some good points. It is just that he has taken a scunner (A strong dislike; an aversion) to Sony's camera releases. They are not equipped as he likes them to be (and who is to argue that he is wrong?). That is what he would like. I also have my ideas and think that Sony have got it wrong on occasion. (Just one small example when Sony removed A/S adjustments from the P setting in A300 series - a pointless move not saving a penny). That does not prevent me from using their equipment and getting desired results.

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bfitzgerald
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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:45 pm

That's not the issue I'm simply highlighting DPR's rampant love affair with SLT.
Some of their reviews are now reading like a press release, that's quite worrying

You could argue that I don't like SLT's and you're right, but I would at least try to be a bit more balanced with my wording on articles such as this.

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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby pakodominguez » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:45 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:That's not the issue I'm simply highlighting DPR's rampant love affair with SLT.

And, what's the problem with that?
Bias? Anyways, a review is a one person (one group...) point of view...

People in the industry are exited about improvements in technology. I bump on Mark Weir (Senior Marketing Manager for the Alpha division in the USA) at the Nikon Booth last October at the PPE and he was cheering the wonderful improvements on the Nikon 1 system (but we both agreed it looks like a P&S camera in many ways, hardware and software, not at the level of the 4/3 or NEX systems) specially AF speed.

In other hand, I recall the Sony REP for the Tristate area been so disappointed when the A350 arrived with its "unique" live view solution -but no Video!

People that makes a living on this (manufacturers, journalist, "reviewers", REPS, salesmen...) like products, get exited about them. One of my friends at Adorama loves the NEX7, but dislike the the Nikon V1 -and for about the same price, offer the Fuji X10 instead. Otherwise, he's a Nikon user... Bias?

I think some people are as fundamentalist as the fanboys they are against.
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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby aramkostanyan » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:05 pm

Does anyone know is the delay when shooting with flash eliminated on A57 or not?
Barry, can you please comment on the color differences and accuracy between sony and nikon.
Apart from being SLT or SLR, what about the IQ and color differences of Nikon and Sony.
Sony A55 + Sigma 17-70 2.8-4 HSM, SAM 55-200
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:41 pm

IQ and colours is a pretty big subject and I can only comment on actual field use or files I've processed and that's only a small number of cameras v the range from all the makers.

Then you have to mix in jpeg results (which you can adjust quite a bit now) and raw (which varies depending on the software you use to process them) and WB has a huge impact on this too.
Overall I was not unhappy with the A200 I had, it was quite appealing tones wise. I did not like the A100 as that was a bit flat and boring tonality wise, I didn't feel much for A700 in raw either. Whilst I did not have an A580 I played with some raw files I thought it was pretty nice colour wise. SLT models I have not really looked into that much.

I found Pentax to be not bad but the K-x was way off WB sometimes by a big margin (great for tungsten, but off for other light) it had strong green/magenta shifts using AWB and it was a downside I didn't expect to find even with manual settings I had issues. Jpegs were over saturated on the K-x. K-r was better less WB problems, more realistic jpegs colour wise. Good detail retention at high ISO (with NR off) on jpegs.

Sony jpegs were poor on the cameras I tried, strong NR removing details and no NR off def run a mile for high ISO and jpegs.
KM jpegs quite good I would have liked a NR off as the NR isn't as low as I wanted but overall I was not unhappy using the 5d in jpeg mode

Strong magenta cast on Sony raw files in LR for some reason, quite a bit on the KM raw files too even with adjustment I still had to tweak this.
Nikon jpegs excellent even better than Pentax, NR off great for details even high ISO. Raw files skintones are quite good on the D90, possibly the Km5d remains my favourite for skintones and people shots, but for subjects that had strong reds you could run into trouble (KM pushed the reds quite a lot even in raw) that is why it probably is great for people shots. D90 is quite restrained in saturation fairly natural overall I am quite happy with them.

Lots of folks like the Canon colours and some like Olympus. This is very subjective though as some folks have their own taste. I am very fussy with tones and WB and to be honest, bar the Km5d I have yet to equal skintones for portraits in a way that film can work. Reds are just not the same in digital for some reason and I can spot it very easily looking at my film scans (from various films too) Film skin-tones are very natural and bang on the mark they just look so different to me. And that's not being sentimental as I am happy with digital in many ways..tonality wise I think we're not where we could be though. Those gradual subtle transitions of colours are not quite the same v film.

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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby aramkostanyan » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:02 pm

Thanks Barry, that was quite detailed.
I agree, the color taste is different, but it is possible to say which system what kind of colors give.
Sony A55 + Sigma 17-70 2.8-4 HSM, SAM 55-200
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:07 pm

It is to a point but only in general terms. Even with the same maker between models can vary sometimes more than you think, and raw as well.
I don't have a problem with recent "Sony colours" and tones, bar a few models I felt were a little bland (some might prefer that)
Some folks say Canon are "pinkish" for skin tones, and Nikon are "yellowish" that is a general vibe..not entirely off the mark.

But with processing you can make whatever you want. The issue is how much work it takes (ie the less the better)
DK might have a better idea I believe his wife did a course in colour science. It's probably more involved than we think, but even subtle hues and colour changes can be noticed by some (and some might not care)

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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby Heidfirst » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:38 am

bfitzgerald wrote:That depends if that is what the buyer wants.

Mmmm, no. Facts remain facts irrespective of the buyer's/reader's needs or wants.


But that is not an accurate reflection of all buyers needs.

No camera at any price let alone lower-mid meets all buyers needs.
Not a Canon nor a Nikon nor a Leica nor a Phase 1 etc. etc.

bfitzgerald wrote:Printer reviews..well how about lenses and flashguns? Both are an awful lot more useful to reader.

I use a printer an awful lot more than I use flash & I'm a reader.... :wink:

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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:05 am

Well flash may be of little interest to some, but not all, otherwise why bother putting a hot-shoe on a camera? I think camera reviews should always include system flash testing (its part of the camera system).
How was it possible for a camera to get a gold award when the flash doesn’t fire when you press the shutter button? Here we are in 2012 with all these power consuming fandangled electronic gadget cameras and they have progressed backwards with an unacceptable delay for flash triggering, even my SRT makes the flash fire instantly when I press the shutter button, so why can’t Sony manage that half a century later?
Greg

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bfitzgerald
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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:08 am

Greg it got gold because DPR feel they should be part of the Sony marketing campaign (for some reason) They also made a lot of excuses for Sony in a thread once (about how this is the direction Sony have to take) it's pure nonsense IMO
Very little critique..how can a camera get gold with bad jpeg engine?

As for flash comments they do their usual mug shot against a background fine it's something at least no mention of the flash delay (and that was an issue A580 too). They started making AF comments, but every model that had AF problems they completely missed so you might as well ignore those. Half the problem with DPR is they spend most of their time in the studio taking boring shots of static scenes (fine for IQ pixel peepers) and not enough time actually using the camera in the field.

Yes flashgun reviews would be very useful to me, the lens reviews were of some use too (but they stopped doing them for some reason) DPR have loads of staff..yet the quality of the reviews is falling.

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Re: A57 to be announced on 13 Mar 12 (per SAR)

Unread postby alphaomega » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Barry Fitzgerald makes this point again about A590 and flash delay
As for flash comments they do their usual mug shot against a background fine it's something at least no mention of the flash delay (and that was an issue A580 too).

There was a separate thread about this some time ago and I actually tested my HVL-F20AM on my A580 and concluded that there was a small delay when using the rear screen only (LV). When using the OVF setting the flash was instantaneous.


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