Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Until the top 2 players offer cameras with no mirror for their native mounts, we're simply speculating.
But it is by no means certain that they will go in this direction and until something shows up I think we can assume it's years away..and there is a chance that they simply won't go with EVF's at all.

The Minolta DNA is already watered down a lot, it's basically the mount that remains. There isn't a hope in hell a NEX type body will replace A mount, DSLR type users will instantly reject it. I know Sony want to make a touch screen camera with no on body controls and just a shutter button to save on production costs, but this isn't what a DSLR buyer wants. That's why there are a variety of models for different people and their needs.

SLT bargain basement prices has a chance, but SLT Sony premium prices it's doomed to fail. It's quite simple really I'm amazed they think overpricing is going to work for them. If most forum members were honest and you sat down with a clean sheet with no investment at all...a lot would not pick A mount right now.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by waardij »

this afternoon, I have been doing that, wondering what I would if I could start again. and perhaps I am not a typical user, but I would buy a99.again. the 36Mp of the d800 are tempting, but I dot like the crippled live view solution. and the dynamic range of Canon is simply too limmiting.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

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Not sure about the D800 live view I have no hands on experience with that model. I know they added a histogram (but some say it's not that useful) Evidently the focus magnify isn't that sharp, the exposures are not accurate as per on the LCD, and it's noisy as hell for lower light making manual focus difficult, mix in the green cast LCD and it's looking a bit iffy for live view fans. Nikon have never really been great for live view, on many models you can't even change aperture. Depends how big a live view user you are

I was shooting with a 5dMkII the other week for fun and I don't think the DR is a massive issue least it seemed ok to me at that time.
I could never warm to the Nikon colours and tones really not as good as Minolta/Sony in that area esp skin tones by no means bad but devoid of that bit of spark that I like (hard to quantify but it's a taste thing)

Starting again could be costly, which is why I didn't start from scratch with Canon. Plus I can lay my hands on quite a bit of Canon stuff on loan anyway without having to buy it all.

I got my 70-210 mm f4 just before Xmas and it's the best copy I've used to far super condition and sharp across the range wide open. You just can't get a lens like that on any other mount for a little over £110 odd boxed with instructions. This is why some folks look at A mount, add some other classic stupidly cheap but crushingly sharp lenses such as the 35-70mm f4 (I've one that is basically 100% mint boxed) costs £45 odd..and a great lens on full frame, other nice lenses like the 24-85mm and 17-35mm again all very affordable and they are good lenses too. This is where the bargains are to be had. There are some decent lenses on other mounts, but add up the cost and it's fairly serious cash outlay time. Meanwhile bargain nice glass hunter can build up a very decent system using vintage Minolta lenses for a very modest outlay. Mix in the odd Tamron/Sigma where required.

I've not sat down and tried to add up the system cost in trying to replicate some of those lenses and the stabilisation in other mounts. Even trying to copy the beercan in Canon will set you back just under £900 odd for the f4 L with IS! Sure you can Sigma or Tamron it..but hey this is why people are here, it's the glass that brought them to the party.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by Wes Gibbon »

I'm just speculatiing, but maybe the A99 is a stop-gap. Perhaps Sony had hoped to have made more progress with their EVF, video and other innovations, but mindful of how they tried the patience of A-mount users by not releasing a replacement for the A700 for so long, they cobbled together the best of what they had into the A99 as a marker, to say 'hello, we're still here, we haven't given up on FF'. Perhaps the replacement when it arrives will address all the criticisms of the A99 and be a real category killer.

Or maybe not, and the A99 is just the end of the line. After all, they haven't got any numbers left without going backwards. I suppose A99N or some other meaningless letter is a possibility.

Or maybe they will go straight to a NEX9. I expect that is ultimately their goal, but I couldn't say whether that is just a concept/dream or they have made serious progress. It would have to be better than the A99 and it could be several generations of improvements before that is possible. I wouldn't know.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by alphaomega »

Barry Fitzgerald wrote
The Minolta DNA is already watered down a lot, it's basically the mount that remains. There isn't a hope in hell a NEX type body will replace A mount, DSLR type users will instantly reject it. I know Sony want to make a touch screen camera with no on body controls and just a shutter button to save on production costs, but this isn't what a DSLR buyer wants. That's why there are a variety of models for different people and their needs.
Sony can forget about the touch screen and shutter button as far as I am concerned. I am/was a DSLR type. Just put my DSLR outfit consisting of A580/Tamron 10-24/Sony 16-80 and 18-270 in bag on the scales 2.9Kg. My NEX equivalent outfit consisting of NEX-6 with 16-55 pancake/NEX-5N with 16mm &W/A converter and 55-210mm zoom 1.0Kg in bag. So I can walk around a whole day with the NEX outfit at 1/3 the weight and more or less cover the same focal lengths and have two cameras (less lens changing). The NEX image quality on a par with or better than DSLR output. Add a second DSLR and I will be above 3.5Kg in weight. So it is the old story of "horses for courses". In my case the NEX outfit is a winner most of the time on account of less weight and bulk for the same image quality.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by classiccameras »

The NEX cameras consistantly get very good reviews and are the best of the CSC cameras even slightly better than the Oly OM-D for IQ. However, they are not every ones cup of tea and coming from the 35-mm film SLR days I still prefer that style of body with eye level viewfinder, EVF or OVF, don't mind either.
It was the IQ and colours that Sony produced that got my attention and eventual purchase of an SLT. In my opinion Sony produce the best colours of any DSLR/CSC and again in my opinion, Fuji comes a close second.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by bakubo »

bakubo wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:I have read them but I disagree makers are overstating their ISO numbers. I picked on Olympus because they are one of the easy ones to spot..and they have a shady corporate past too so much more likely to cheat :lol:
Awhile back I pulled out my A700 and my E-M5 and shot the same subject in the same light using raw. I was curious to see what the meter would do. I set both to ISO 200 and f2.8:

A700: 1/20
E-M5: 1/25

I shot another subject using ISO 200 and f4:

A700: 1/160
E-M5: 1/160

I looked at the resulting photos and they seemed to be the same. DxO says at ISO 200 the A700 is 150 and the E-M5 is 107 and yet the meters resulted in the same exposures. From a practical standpoint it doesn't seem to make any difference what is happening inside the bowels of the camera as long as the exposures for a given light level and ISO are the same among various cameras. I am talking about from a photographer's perspective.

I do get the impression that I am sometimes out of step on this and other forums though since I am more into the photos than all the nitty-gritty details of what is happening inside the cameras. As long as the results look good to me and I get exposures that I expect for a given ISO then I am okay. So, you can compare photos from various cameras set to a particular ISO and know that you are seeing what they do at that ISO.
On dpreview someone asked a similar question so I got curious again and decided to try a different comparison to see what results I would get. Here it is.

I used my Olympus E-M5 and Panasonic G3 with the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 to take a photo. I set both to ISO 400 and f2 and took the same photo using raw.

G3: 1/20
E-M5: 1/25

DxO says at ISO 400 the G3 is 372 and the E-M5 is 214 and yet the meters resulted in almost the same exposures. Both of the photos look to be the same when I open them in LR 4.4.

I suggest that anyone who is curious do the same with your cameras.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by classiccameras »

I have to aggree with Barry on some of his points.

I admit that I was influenced by camera reviews and they played a significant role in my decission to go SLT A Mount even though generally Canikons of similar spec and price were getting higher marks. I was also very intrigued that Legacy Minolta/Konica Minolta AF lenses would also work on the A mount bodies.
This more or less clinched it for me. It was a A37 which got glowing reports from nearly every reviewer that got me down to Jessops with cash in hand.

After using this camera and later a second hand mint A57 for many hundreds of pictures, it became quite obvious why people liked Sony cameras, apart from a superb performance in nearly all parameters, it was the colour pallette which really impresses.
After some searches on the used lens sites I found a KM 17-35 F/2.8 and a quite rare 24-85 F/3.5. Both these lenses I use the most on landscapes and my Sony 18-135 for more general use, I never use the Kit 18-55 although its not bad being honest.
I have since begun to see just how incomplete and biased some reviews are and I now treat most with some sceptisism. As Barry said, far better real world evaluations can be obtained from other users like my friends on this forum.

As a side note, I went down to Jessops in St Albans Herts on Saturday and the shop was brimming with all the makes except Pentax DSLR's, but they said they could get them. The entire Sony A and NEX range were on show except the A99.
Prices looked pretty competative on most brands.
They even had Oly OM's in stock plus a few lenses and the latest Canikons.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Been to St. Albans a few times, the "new look" Jessops stores are certainly much better than the old ones (a lot less of them around though), I think that's a recent re-opening of that branch.

Interesting to look back on things a few points to note:
- Nikon's D600 is evidently going to be update very soon to cure the hideous reputation it's got for sensor dirt/oil etc, the terrible Nikon QC problems seem to have infected their FF Model and it's going to hurt them big time (esp D600 users who will lose re-sale value on a dud model) The internet is loaded with complaints about dirt on the D600 sensor even well after it's initial launch, it's a huge failure for Nikon (must have cost them service wise too) and will lose them customers no questions about it (just as it did with their lousy AF issues on the D7k)
- Canon 6d, it's on cashback and down to £1250 odd including that, probably the best more affordable FF choice right now.
- Sony's A99 is still a crazy price even a year after it's launch just under £2000 for the body, even if they dropped it £500 the impact has been almost completely lost

The big one to watch is the Pentax FF body due soon we are told, I have some doubts about Pentax esp Ricoh who have put lens prices up to crazy levels since they took over, it will be interesting to see if they put this out at a non daft price and if they bring some half decent FF glass with it too.

The good news is that if Pentax do enter the FF market it might put a rocket up the Alpha development team who completely missed the boat a year ago, Sony could be in danger of being last place for full frame (despite having a half decent FF lens range) More competition is good for everyone.

But we're still waiting for the £1000 price point body only to be hit, only them will FF really start to take off.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by classiccameras »

Yes, its a recent opening, within the last 18 Months any way. I asked the sales person [who was a keen fan and user of all things Sony] where the next nearest branch was, he said Oxford Street, London. Any way, he said the A58 was selling quite well but no cameras were flying out the door like they used to. I introduced him to Photoclubalpha which he was not aware of.

Pentax have shot themselves in the foot lens wise, SRS which is my nearest Shop are Pentax main dealers and are trying to entice you with deals and cash backs but its not really working that well sales wise. Pentax lenses in my estimation have just been average performers, nothing special, the standard kit 18-55 kit lens is too variable, the weather resistant version is so so and the non weather model quite good or was it the other way round, I can't remember.

Their 16-135 is a disaster according to one review and that was a Hoya development not Rikoh, I think it was Photozone who were not impressed.
If Pentax do bring out an FF, they must obviously have done their market research for that format, but they need to up their game with lenses not only for FF but APS-C, and keep their prices sensible as well.

I kept back my Nikon 16-85 and 18-105 when I sold my old D5000 & D5100 bodies [actually I wished I had not sold the D5000 as it was a budget D90 in disguise and a superb performer], I tend to hang on to good lenses even though I have no body just in case some thing really tempting comes on the market.
From reading several reviews and I know Barry, they are not always reliable, the Sony A mount lenses and Minolta A mount are sitting in quite an enviable position as compared to other brands, they get above average reviews and the standard A mount kit lens 18-55 was according to photozone, the best kit lens around.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

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I've seen the prices of the paint job/rounded blades Pentax lenses, and they're shocking to say the least. I feel sorry for the dealers as they can only stretch the margins so far.
Have a look here:
http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Pent ... SLR-Lenses

I wrote in the open talk about this and the new super pricey flashes. Ricoh are really tearing Pentax up big time I can't see it lasting with prices like that. Pentax 21mm f3.2 £589..70mm f2.4 £639 Is that a joke?

It wouldn't be fair to say they have bad lenses, I tried a few and the 40mm f2.8 is quite a nice little pancake lens, but when all is said and done it's still and f2.8 lens and just isn't worth the asking price esp not the HD version. 70mm again tried that and it's a good lens, but the price is just insane it's not worth that kind of money

They do have some lemons, the 18-55mm (all versions) are the weakest kit lenses out there bar none (and I've tried them all) stay away from them even with a body deal you wont want to use the kit. 18-135mm tried that too it's disappointing with tons of CA, it's not that sharp either and very weak tele end even stopped right down. Their 16-50mm f2.8 has been plagued with QC problems with the SDM motor (sudden death motor as I call them) it's expensive, nice build but optically wiped out by the Tamron/Sigma 17-50mm's which cost far far less. 35mm macro is a good lens though, new price is insane again but it's quite a decent lens.

So it's not all ropey in K mount, but they have a few more lemon lenses than they should have.
Should see their K-3 24mp APS-C model out soon, it will be interesting to see how that stacks up expect a very beefed up AF system. Probably will be pricey enough and with the lens price hikes I can't see it making any impact no matter how good the body is.

Pentax have some good bodies and badly overpriced lenses. Sony have some good lenses (some gaps yes) but they're coming into the big sales period of the year Christmas and trying to sell older models (A77/65) an overpriced FF body, and a not that interesting cheap one (A58) I'm not sure who's in charge but this time of year is critical for sales of this kind of thing, someone badly messed up at Sony by not having newer models out for sale.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

I’ve never really investigated the Pentax lens line up so I’m not all that familiar with the lens designations and what they imply, but some of those lenses in the list at camerapricebuster look like they are no longer in production according to Wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentax_Lenses but that could just be a designation difference of some kind maybe.
The Pentax lens line is long with many different model types, it would be difficult to identify how compatible a particular lens might actually be with any given camera, it would be for me anyway.
It will be interesting to see if the strategy of raising prices will work and attract more customers to the Pentax brand. :roll:

Maybe Sony could get another E-mount camera out on the street before X-mas, an A5000 perhaps, there might be a few sales for that one. People won’t care if A-mount lenses don’t fit directly if the price is good, they’ll worry about the adaptor price later…if ever.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by classiccameras »

its rather sad really because back in the 35mm SLR days, when Pentax were highly regarded, their Super Takumar lenses were par excellence and were at least equal or better than the offerings from Canikon.

As I said in another thread, Pentax bodies are becoming pretty good now, so use Sigma/Tamron lenses, I think that would be an un beatable combination without being ripped off. You don't have to go near a Pentax lens and still have a great system.
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

Yes the Pentax brand was always one of things that will be around forever, I didn't have any personal contact with it though I started with Minolta and just hung around with that brand.
But I remember lusting after the Pentax 6X7 a few times, and the MF 645 as well. It's a pity to see such a great brand struggle in the doldrums, being passed around from one place to the next.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Alpha A99 Field Test Report

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

The naming Pentax use is fairly easy to work out. DA is for crop sensors, FA full frame, WR is just that weather resistant, SDM is supposed to mean Super-Sonic drive motor (basically the same as Canon's USM)

No idea how accurate that Wiki article is for in production lenses. I do know a few of the Pentax lenses are basically Tokina ones, the 16-50mm f2.8 being one of those, 12-24 being another one, 50-135mm f/2.8 also a Tokina lens.

Yes I would tend to agree you can Sigma and Tamron it on K mount, but it should be noted that some of the newer lenses are not on K mount esp notable with Tamron's new 70-200mm, their SP 70-300mm, a few other ones like the 60mm f2 macro. You can still get the bread and butter stuff like 17-50mm and 90mm etc etc (2 lenses I've had on all 3 mounts in the past)

More to the point if Ricoh price Pentax lenses so high, then they won't be selling that many! And it might put people off big time.
You might be surprised the no. of people who "only want" to buy OEM lenses from the same maker. I'm fine with third party stuff myself, but not everyone shares that view.

It is a pity, but my brief communication with Ricoh a few years back on that compact review...I really don't think they are able to take on board user critique and act upon it. So it's no surprise to me they are simply out of ideas and re-badging lenses with much higher prices. As good as the new K-3 might be, folks will take one look at the lenses and flash prices and run a very long country mile. Die hard Pentax fans who already have lots of glass will be happy, but the system overall is a complete non starter for most people. I don't honestly expect it to be around long term, unless someone else buys it up and starts doing what Pentax should do best, good solid affordable cameras/lenses no nonsense stuff..forget high end Pentax have no hope of competing here.

I do wish Sony would look at their bodies though, they can do some really good stuff at times bang per buck they are appealing.
I also think they would have a big hit with a no nonsense K1000 digital body, that's a classic camera and it could have been used for an ILC platform or something like that, rather than the quickly forgotten Q series.
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