A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test?

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Greg Beetham
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

Barry even at that price you guys are still getting reamed sideways, 2300 Pounds = 3530 Australian (roughishly) which is about a thousand more than the best price here at the moment http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-sony-slt-a ... 94315.html which is 2436 little Aussie battlers, at the top of the list.
Thing is if I can buy the A99 here for $2436 Aud that’s equivalent to £1587 Stirling then one would seriously have to ask WHAT THE flipping heck is going on? :shock:

Anyway it’s not important to me what the price of FF cameras are, I’d only want to hump one around for a couple of reasons occasionally so the whole thing is not really attractive to me, put it this way they would have to make one exactly the way I want or it’s a no go.
If I was a wedding photographer I’d have to think differently I’d say, especially for the group shots, and in light of what’s going on of late with neither Nikon or Sony being able to get their chit together in any convincing manner I would just go Canon 5D and to hell with em. That way I’d avoid having to buy any expensive Sony lenses if I were to buy an A900 for example.
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by agorabasta »

All this talk about affordable/consumer FF cams is absolutely meaningless, that's if the optical quality of the whole system is of any importance.

That's because now and in a few more years into the future, it's the APSC that cleanly wins here. It would take a 56Mp FF to get close to optical quality of a 24Mp APS; and then the lenses need be considerably more telecentric to match the APS sensor/mount geometry for a given mount.

So right now, about the only advantage of the FF is that it makes the FF lenses produce their nominally wide FOV. Mind also, there's no 'high-ISO' advantage once the DoF is equalised between FF/APS.

Thus there's no real advantage for D600 over D7000 and there are tons of disadvantages. It would be the same for A99/A77 had they kept the sensor in the A77 properly operated.
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by pakodominguez »

waardij wrote:about the a99 just being an a77 with a better sensor: if you look at it that way, the d600 is just a d7000 with a better sensor. it seems that Sony took a higher spec starting point, which can only be a good thing. And wow, what a sensor.
The A99 have more than just a "better" sensor than the A77. Actually, I don't think it is "better", but bigger. What I meant was that the A99 is not much better or revolutionary or ready to satisfy all the expectations videographers got after the stellar performance of the NEX5N -they want more and the A99 doesn't deliver much more... -we still need some time in order to get feedback from real users (not "reviewers") about the performance of this sensors.
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by pakodominguez »

Greg Beetham wrote:The A99 has one thing in still shooting mode the A900 doesn’t have, 14bit depth, big difference, it appears to have much greater dynamic range.

Pako if you look at the thread on dpr in Sony SLT forum http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3347335 where there is a video comparison between the 4/3rd EM5 and the FF A99 the Olympus wins hands down, it’s not even funny, it’s tragic.
This camera was supposed to be able to do video, the whole idea of SLT’s with the EVF and PDAF in video is for doing good video and the A99 so far just doesn’t deliver. :shock:
Greg
Greg,
I have see that thread, but I haven't had the chance to see the video, mostly because I have too much work now, until the end of the year.

Anyways, unless they used the same lens, the "test" is not much of a help. In other hand, a poster that open his account on OCT 24 just in order to post biased criticism... I won't defend A99 weakness, but I won't waste my (little) time giving credit to this guy.

Here you can read and see a review and "real work" from established Pros http://www.eoshd.com/content/9102/johnn ... and-review I like this people, they are not comparing A99 against anything. They are telling us what they can do with the A99 and what they think Sony needs to improve.
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by David Kilpatrick »

You'll get very little from me on video, as I have little use for it in the absence of commercial video work. But the A99 does have some video functions totally missing on the APS-C models, notably a pretty exceptional uninterpolated zoom from 1X to 3X, electronically controlled with no need to touch the lens. It goes beyond this, to 4X, but the final stage involves interpolation. It also works in APS-C crop mode from 1.5X to 4X.

The zoom is controlled by left-right movement of the joystick, and it will work during video filming, though it's a bit difficult to invoke. For some reason, you can't assign zoom to the Silent Controller which would be ideal.

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Greg Beetham
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

pakodominguez wrote: Greg,
I have see that thread, but I haven't had the chance to see the video, mostly because I have too much work now, until the end of the year.

Anyways, unless they used the same lens, the "test" is not much of a help. In other hand, a poster that open his account on OCT 24 just in order to post biased criticism... I won't defend A99 weakness, but I won't waste my (little) time giving credit to this guy.

Here you can read and see a review and "real work" from established Pros http://www.eoshd.com/content/9102/johnn ... and-review I like this people, they are not comparing A99 against anything. They are telling us what they can do with the A99 and what they think Sony needs to improve.
Well yes Pako in one sense you could suspect the guy of having an agenda, but I just took it at face value of one camera taking the same shot as the other camera and that seems fair enough, I don’t see how that would unfairly disadvantage the A99 unless I’m missing something.
That’s always a possibility of course, someone once said ‘I’m not a complete idiot, there’s a few bits missing’ and sometimes I probably should observe the wise Confucian saying ‘It’s better to keep ones mouth closed and let people think you’re an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt,’ but where’s the fun in that?
Put it this way, if the guy (and the other guy who said much the same thing about his A99 video) has an agenda to unfairly besmirch the A99 video capabilities then it should have been fairly easy for the ‘believers’ to post better A99 video and video stills than he did…correct? I guess they are working on that even as we speak.
Greg
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I'm no expert but no way should an OM-D whip a FF camera for video, and it looks that way from the examples.
As for getting reamed I've no idea why the UK price is so ridiculous it's more expensive than the A900 was at launch, and though the D600 was £2000 initially it dropped very quickly in price (because it was overpriced)
I can't imagine Sony will be selling a lot of A99's to UK buyers at that rip off price

As for Sony..they do odd questionable things. They have a £30 cashback on some of the budget lenses, but raised the price of the 50mm f1.8 by £29.99 just after the offer came out! If that's a bit suspect for any cash back off I think it reflects badly on Sony as a whole. Whilst I'm here Sony have gone over their 28 day promise of Cash back on the A57 offer I sent in!

Leaving to aside I think the A99 is going to be a flop for Sony, it's beaten IQ wise by a camera costing far less, not even that fast fps wise either (esp not for an SLT) Let's not forget it's still a partial (not full) mag alloy body, probably almost the same as the A77. It could be a hit for £1300 odd..
At it's UK price the A99 either a compelling argument for sticking to APS-C, or moving mounts. Another "uh oh" is evidently the sad small buffer on the A99. I've no idea why Sony put small buffers on their higher priced model it's sure to turn off some people. A77 suffers from this too.

One could argue the low light performance is loads better than the A77, but then the A77 is hardly great in low light due to a first run of the 24mp sensor, handily beaten by even a junior budget 24mp Nikon IQ wise.
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by mikeriach »

bfitzgerald wrote: .... I've no idea why Sony put small buffers on their higher priced model it's sure to turn off some people. A77 suffers from this too.
Totally agree re the A77, it's caught me out on several occasions.

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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by agorabasta »

Totally agree about small buffers.

But they want you to buy fast memory. This way you have your small buffer cleared faster. And most interestingly, the Sony MS of HX variety is the only option with their modern cams that has an 8-bit interface - twice wider than the SD interface. Using those HX cards also helps avoid overheating.

So small buffers plus no fast internal memory all come from the simple reason - plain old greed.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I might be off base here but I'd wager 90% of Sony users are using SD cards and not MS ones. I've no problems with them putting dual use slots in the cameras, but I can't see how Sony would gain from small buffers with MS sales. It's quite clear MS is really a dead format, SD is hugely popular and the first choice for this type of camera.

I think it's plain old simple "penny pinching" memory is dirt cheap these days, if they're skimping on memory buffer it's probably just to save a few pennies. Problem is for these higher priced SLR bodies you pay more and expect more. I find it more than a bit strange a £499 A57 has a buffer of 20 shots in raw (ish) v the A77 and A99 whose buffer should be at least that if not a bit more. Maybe not a big deal to some, but if the A99's going to grab people you don't want to hear about a small buffer. Yes 24mp is more file size wise than 16mp, but you just make the buffer bigger.
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by agorabasta »

Barry, an original 32GB HX is U$80 on Amazon. And this type of card really helps on the more speed-demanding occasions. I have a pile of fast enough SD's, but I have at least one 32GB HX for every recent (read - no CF) body I own. And I'm not alone.

So that's quite a business for Sony.
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by pakodominguez »

bfitzgerald wrote:I'm no expert but no way should an OM-D whip a FF camera for video, and it looks that way from the examples.
Whip?
Really?
bfitzgerald wrote:As for getting reamed I've no idea why the UK price is so ridiculous it's more expensive than the A900 was at launch, and though the D600 was £2000 initially it dropped very quickly in price (because it was overpriced)
You definitely have no much idea of how prices work (me neither, that's why I keep quiet) -your old "it's overprice" talk is only backed up by your wallet. And the answer is "buy the camera you can afford". Period.

Apparently you have not been reading your friend Thom's blog lately, where he states that Nikon reduced prices in some models because they need sales, otherwise they won't hit their quarterly target. At some point, he wrote also that, if Nikon couldn't make a FF camera for cheaper (even using components from existing cameras) is because there is a limit in the price of the sensors: A big sensor cost MUCH more than a small sensor. I think your friend Thom DO know about prices more than you and me...

So, when people said that a M4/3 camera that cost $XXX whip a $XXXX FF camera in sharpness, they are only showing their ignorance.
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by pakodominguez »

agorabasta wrote:Barry, an original 32GB HX is U$80 on Amazon. And this type of card really helps on the more speed-demanding occasions. I have a pile of fast enough SD's, but I have at least one 32GB HX for every recent (read - no CF) body I own. And I'm not alone.

So that's quite a business for Sony.
Yep.
And Lexar's MS are not as good/fast/etc than the Original Sony cards.
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agorabasta
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by agorabasta »

pakodominguez wrote:You definitely have no much idea of how prices work (me neither, that's why I keep quiet) -your old "it's overprice" talk is only backed up by your wallet.
I have a very clear idea, and will tell! :lol:

Really, if the pricing for most imported goods seems too high considering the x-rate for your local currency, it only means that your currency is underpriced against the foreign ones.
So blame your govt and do your best to sack them forever.

a later P.S. Then if the imported goods are universally cheaper than the local produce, it only means your currency is overvalued. Then you also have to sack your govt A.S.A.P..
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A99 shutter cycle - can owners pleae help me with a test

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I don't think the UK taxes and VAT can explain such a big price difference.
I'm sure Nikon are reducing prices to boost sales. I see Canon blowing out the EOS 1100d too for dirt cheap price including a card and bag for next to nothing.
Problem is Sony can't remain oblivious of this, it will only hurt the small ish market share they have.

Tonight I attended an event (I was not taking pictures at this) I saw a press shooter with the usual Canon stuff L lenses and beefy flash. I also saw a young teenage kid shooting with a Canon DSLR (albeit a budget one and kit lens) Until Sony can think of a way to challenge this perception and brand pull (it's unquestionably huge for Canon even now) I wonder where they will go with their SLT dreams.

You guys might buy a MS card but I'm loaded up with SD cards that I can actually use in other devices (not just cameras) so I'll pass on MS myself. I think the buffer has a lot more to do with some problems in product planing, than a ploy to sell MS cards (hint we have some pretty fast SD cards now too)
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