after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

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mvanrheenen

Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by mvanrheenen »

classiccameras wrote:I saw in my local Jessops store about a 18 Months ago, a Sony Alpha 560, does any one know much about this camera, I think it was on the market even less time than the 580.
The only difference is that the a560 has a 14.2MP sensor and the a580 a 16.2 MP sensor as far as I can remember.

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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by jeep1 »

bfitzgerald wrote:
Right now the D600 is vastly cheaper than the A99 it could cause a loss of users to F mount and more than a few of them.
Although I find reports of dust and oil spots on Nikon sensors rather worrying. My son had a D7000 that kept getting oil spots on the sensor and the problem persisted even after two returns to Nikon for fixing. Seems too much lubricant applied to mirror/shutter mechanism on quite a few models. The D800 also suffered from this and now reports of 'dust' problems with the 600. My son abandoned Nikon after their failure to admit to or resolve his problem and it does not speak highly of their quality control either.
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by Headcell »

gio67 wrote:
Headcell wrote:In what ways is the A580 a utopian camera?
If you need to ask the question,you would not understand the answer
Yeah, that's a useful answer.

I do still own the A580; despite trying to sell it, no one wants to buy it Seems to me that nobody wants a bite of Utopia... Perhaps your reply is more about you than my understanding.
gio67
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by gio67 »

Headcell wrote:
gio67 wrote:
Headcell wrote:In what ways is the A580 a utopian camera?
If you need to ask the question,you would not understand the answer
Yeah, that's a useful answer.

I do still own the A580; despite trying to sell it, no one wants to buy it Seems to me that nobody wants a bite of Utopia... Perhaps your reply is more about you than my understanding.
"my Utopian cameras" "my" being the operative word. :wink:

your right about selling digital cameras, better to sell them as soon as you decide that it's not the answer,the longer you leave it, the more it is perceived to be obsolete and remain in the cupboard forevermore
I hope you have good luck with the sale anyway
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by Dusty »

Headcell wrote: I do still own the A580; despite trying to sell it, no one wants to buy it Seems to me that nobody wants a bite of Utopia... Perhaps your reply is more about you than my understanding.
The problem isn't that no one wants it, the problem is I have no spare $$!

Dusty
An a700, an a550 and couple of a580s, plus even more lenses (Zeiss included!).
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bfitzgerald
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

jeep1 wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:
Right now the D600 is vastly cheaper than the A99 it could cause a loss of users to F mount and more than a few of them.
Although I find reports of dust and oil spots on Nikon sensors rather worrying. My son had a D7000 that kept getting oil spots on the sensor and the problem persisted even after two returns to Nikon for fixing. Seems too much lubricant applied to mirror/shutter mechanism on quite a few models. The D800 also suffered from this and now reports of 'dust' problems with the 600. My son abandoned Nikon after their failure to admit to or resolve his problem and it does not speak highly of their quality control either.
I did not see this on the 2 D7000's I had one of which I used quite a bit. My problems were simply unsatisfactory AF across all 5 bodies. Nikon won't admit issues, they ignored the D800 AF issues, I highly doubt they will come clean about the D600 oil splats either.

I agree it is a mount change situation, might write that letter to Nikon just to see what they say..all a bit too late but really not impressed with their customer support or their attempts to "fix things". Pentax were even worse admitting a problem and a lack of solution..don't ever write a letter to Pentax you will never get a reply not even a standard one. Awful customer support

A580's should sell ok I see them around on ebay might pick one up myself next year though the A700 is pretty cheap now too.
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

Dusty wrote:
Headcell wrote: I do still own the A580; despite trying to sell it, no one wants to buy it Seems to me that nobody wants a bite of Utopia... Perhaps your reply is more about you than my understanding.
The problem isn't that no one wants it, the problem is I have no spare $$!

Dusty
+1, although it's £'s in my case!
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by classiccameras »

My local camera shop would sell your 580 on commision [20%] but they would not be interested in buying It. The dealers I know seem to be a tad negative about Sony DSLR/SLT cameras. Different story if you turned up with a Nikon or Canon though.

In a way, Sony seem to be in the same boat as early model Skoda cars, good cars in my opinion but dealers were not interested and if they were you got peanuts in the exchange deal.
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by Wes Gibbon »

bfitzgerald wrote:
jeep1 wrote:
Although I find reports of dust and oil spots on Nikon sensors rather worrying. My son had a D7000 that kept getting oil spots on the sensor and the problem persisted even after two returns to Nikon for fixing. Seems too much lubricant applied to mirror/shutter mechanism on quite a few models. The D800 also suffered from this and now reports of 'dust' problems with the 600. My son abandoned Nikon after their failure to admit to or resolve his problem and it does not speak highly of their quality control either.
I did not see this on the 2 D7000's I had one of which I used quite a bit.
As I understand it, the problem is experienced mainly when taking shots rapidly in succession. And, of course, some examples are worse than others.

Although the A99 is clearly overpriced, it is not entirely fair to criticise Sony for being more expensive than Nikon's FF cameras if Nikon have over-economised on QR and support. One has to ask why Nikon have listed the D600 as a 'consumer' camera when it's predecessor the D700 was 'professional'. Did they already know something was wrong?
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bfitzgerald
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

IMO Nikon over stretched themselves when they got hit with that flooding last year that wiped their production out. This must have caused QC issues and I'd wager they were trying to ramp up production a lot to compensate, corners got cut and big time IMO. 5 F mount bodies all new out of the box with notable (not slight) back focus so I gave up on Nikon after that. I'm not alone in that either with the D800/600 issues they are sure to lose more customers.

I did do some burst shooting with the D7k still never noted that problem, just the lousy AF which was enough to say bye bye. Some mirror slap noted too first time I've hand held photos and found the mirror action causing blur.
Personally I don't really mind what makers call models consumer or not makes little difference to me or most buyers. On paper the D600 should be great, but I'm not touching Nikon again after those problems.

The market will decide if the A99 is a success or not. Personally I don't see it gaining a lot of ground or SLT in general making big waves, unless there is a cost incentive for people to try it. Right now the A99 looks like a £1200 body to me. If Sony think they can use SLT as a way to save money on production and not pass that on to the buyer to tempt them, then they're in for a big shock. In the UK at this moment Sony are not even effectively competing for full frame with the A99. Many big sellers are not even stocking it right now.

But by far the biggest issue for Sony is they always seem on the back foot, rather than leading the pack. If the A99 turned up a year ago it might have had much more impact. They're not short of cash, but possibly a bit short on expertise in cameras.
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by stevecim »

bfitzgerald wrote: But by far the biggest issue for Sony is they always seem on the back foot, rather than leading the pack. If the A99 turned up a year ago it might have had much more impact. They're not short of cash, but possibly a bit short on expertise in cameras.
yep, Sony keep making basic mistakes that a company that size should not make.... Like discontinuing a model before it's replacement is ready , Nik/can always have over lap between new and old models, but Sony will stop selling a model and some times you have to wait over a year for a replacement... so at least for part of any given year, stores will have no Sony stock, not even display stock.. where has Can/Nik displays always have lots of models on display.... Gives the impression that Sony are going to drop out of the DSLR business any day now.

Sony where the first to introduce the $2000.00 FF DSLR with the A850 , why they did not bring out a A88 at $2000 or price the A99 at $2000 make make no sense. They could have made LCD fixed and remove on sensor AF points and called it a A88 . They must have know Can/Nik would introduce $2000 FF DSLRs.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

You never really know with Sony. I don't expect them to drop out of A mount, because if they did it tarnish their name beyond imagination for users.
There is a def problem with continuation of models and you are right Canikon always keep production going, are mostly very consistent with model updates. I think that leaves some A mount users a bit nervous at times. Even today I don't have huge confidence esp after a hot shoe change. I just hope that's it and no more funny stuff!

Sony could have easily updated the A850/900 models and should have a good 18 months ago, A700 was another one left out to dry for years with no updates. When you do that you are asking for users to look at rival products, they played around with the 5 series too years past never really nailing things properly. I think this FF war will get pretty interesting. Still think Sony will only gain market share by "pay less get more" Even to this day Canon has a huge brand attraction to users, people I ask say they buy Canon because they are perceived (right or wrong) to be "the best". Nikon are clearly trying to gain share by under cutting Canon in price
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

I saw somewhere that Nikon had announced or admitted that they were struggling to meet sales forecasts, hence the introduction of special deals. I have no idea if that was gospel or a strong rumour, it was something I saw somewhere. If it is true I wonder if the forecast figures included the impact of emerging QC issues Nikon has managed to generate and whether that has had any flow on effect on sales. One would tend to think in this day and age of the internet that it wouldn’t take much for reporting of issues that people have had to become widespread knowledge rapidly.
So while Sony couldn’t market their way out of a wet paper bag Nikon have been doing their best impersonation of a Sony ‘foot shoot ow’ lately, and Canon didn’t have to do anything apart from remaining at a safe distance from both of them.
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by classiccameras »

Greg

I agree with your comments, however, Canikon users will have the best and largest lens selection of any brand which could be one factor in their world sales dominance. Canon are perceived by the general public as a brand leader and we found [when I was in the trade] that people were 'scared' of Nikon because it had the Pro's label and technology that they were not only unfamilar with, but did they need a camera as sophisticated as that. Of course things have changed dramatically for both Canon and Nikon as they saw the sales potential of easy to use entry level models which gave the same access to most of the vast lens selection the Pros had.
Canon as you say have kept a respectable distance from the other brands. They seemed to have dropped out of the pixel race compared to Nikon and Sony, but still retain probably the most praised reviews for picture quality of any camera, if it aint broke, don't mend it.

I really cannot get my head round Sony's marketing and brand strategy.
We have the excellent A37/57 then the A65 that is not much more expensive than the 57, what is that all about. What sector of the market are they aiming at, its pretty easy to see with the A37/57 but the rest is just a mish mash sitting there wondering who is going to buy them with no help from Sony marketing. They seem to be like a rudderles boat never listening to customer suggestions and needs.
Of all the manufacturers of DSLR's, Pentax seem to be the new kid on the block with a dedicated purpose, a great heritage and a well identified market sector, albeit a small one compared to Canikon.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: after all these long years of buying cameras and as soon

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

You can forget Pentax the K-30 is a nice camera with a decent VF at a very low price and with sealing, but if I'm correct they've jacked up their USA prices a lot for lenses. In the UK Ricoh did the same thing so the system is not really that attractive overall, mix in a fairly pathetic market for s/h AF lenses and you've got a struggling player. K-5II I admire sticking with the 16mp sensor, but it looks like an AF fix for the K-5 which is a nice camera but had serious AF problems just like the K-r did. Pentax have neither the range of bodies/lenses or overall system to compete with the top makers. And do some damn odd things like the horrible looking K-01 and the Q is quite a sad attempt at the ILC market too.

I'm probably not alone in dumping Pentax based on their shaky QC issue with past bodies.
Sony take the many models shotgun approach they have done in the past, that's why the A65 is out there 24mp in the A57 body which is ok I suppose but the A77 is not on cashback, and priced too high in the UK. We'll know more next year when they update models.

Simply put Sony have to update the system lenses and flash wise to compete with rivals better, there are too many gaps around and some lenses have been discontinued and not replaced. I'm still baffled as to why some primes are missing (85mm f1.8, a FF 35mm that isn't stupid expensive) and the lack of beercan update is a long running issue which they need to address now. Canon have 4 70-200mm lenses, Nikon have 2, Sony has just one. Stuff like the Nikkor 85mm f1.8 sells by the bucket load nice lens actually for a modest outlay.

Sony can't compete unless they get this stuff nailed down, they've had long enough to do that. I'm convinced they're only doing ok so far as they've a good market for s/h Minolta glass at good prices. It will only take an in body AF motor removal to entirely screw that up! (I would not be entirely shocked if they did that)
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