Sony Support/Service - My opinion

[Greg Beetham]

It's peculiar that no one (apparently) is checking their cameras to see if there is a similar problem with other models as well as the A57, or maybe some have checked and aren't saying anything one way or the other for some reason.
Greg

[Dr. Harout]

It's peculiar that no one (apparently) is checking their cameras to see if there is a similar problem with other models as well as the A57, or maybe some have checked and aren't saying anything one way or the other for some reason.
Greg

No such thing noticed on either a55, a77 or a99 (yet ). Flares yes, banding no (but flares are not related to SLT).

[bfitzgerald]

Well I got a call today from the same guy. He said the technical team have told him that the green line is caused by the exposure settings, I've basically rebuffed that as clearly whilst the green line is more obvious and intense with higher exposures, it's still there albeit less visible with less exposure.

As expected I am not shocked by this, I didn't expect Sony to openly admit there could be an issue. I've again said I can't get this effect on my other cameras, and I'll be sending on more examples to demonstrate this. Looks like this is going to drag out for a bit sadly. Though I at least have a camera for now.

Higher ISO seems to intensify the green line (expected as it amplifies the signal) but it's still there at low ISO


A57 normal exposure no adjustment

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Km5d overexposed significantly...no green line!

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If the Sony tech team think they're going to pass this off with an exposure excuse, it's not cutting any water around here. Though the Sony guy I spoke to said he is keen to resolve this situation to my satisfaction (not entirely sure what that means but we shall see)

[DrScottNicol]

Hi
I've not been on the forum much recently but stumbled across this thread - I've experienced the same or similar issue with a NEX 5n last year but only once. I asked a few people at the time but no one really gave a good answer as to why it happened and in probably 10K shots since (spread across the 5n / NEX 6 / A77 / A55) I've yet to see it ever again. Unfortunately I can't find the originals, only this thumbnail from an old email.

album.jpg (30.21 KiB) Viewed 5184 times

extract from the email -
"the artefact only appears in one direction, and is almost like the over exposed flame is bleeding along the sensors pixels. (this is the same image with the exposure cranked up on one to exaggerate the effect). It only really happened in these shots at high iso and other shots at 3200 with less intense light sources were absolutely fine"

Scott

[David Kilpatrick]

Bucket overflow effect - surplus charge from one area jumps along the readout line and skews every single reading. In a much simpler form you must have seen it on old TV sets. It is common on scanners.

[bfitzgerald]

The strange thing is that any research I've done on this mentions it as a problem for CCD sensors:
http://learn.hamamatsu.com/articles/ccd ... oming.html

CMOS sensors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_pixel_sensor

"A CMOS camera is immune to the blooming effect where a light source has overloaded the sensitivity of the sensor, causing the sensor to bleed the light source onto other pixels"

Not that I believe everything on Wikipedia, but CMOS should have less of a problem here. Here we have a CMOS sensor showing strong blooming effects, and a CCD one showing none. I find that a bit strange! The budget Fuji bridge cam has a CCD sensor (and shows this blooming effect) the EXR CCD Fuji does not show this problem. I have not noted this issue at all on the D7k, D90, various Pentax CMOS sensor cameras either.

Thanks to DrScottNicol for his post showing the same problem, I assume the NEX has the same sensor as the A57 or very similar.

[Greg Beetham]

Maybe it happens with live feed type sensors and not with record mode only sensors?
Greg

[Atgets_Apprentice]

Maybe it happens with live feed type sensors and not with record mode only sensors?
Greg

Would this not also happen on non SLTs in Live View, if that was the case?

Whatever the cause, I doubt Sony would do anything, even if every owner complained.

[Greg Beetham]

Maybe it happens with live feed type sensors and not with record mode only sensors?
Greg

Would this not also happen on non SLTs in Live View, if that was the case?

Whatever the cause, I doubt Sony would do anything, even if every owner complained.

Dr Scott has a rare example of a NEX doing it, so I guess it's not common with those, and I don't know if a live view DSLR can do it either, not many people seem to be reporting in, Doc H didn't find any problems with his cameras.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Another update:
I spoke at length today with the guy from Sony and he has relayed the information from them to me.
They are saying that this is a by-product of CMOS sensors and it can be found across makers and not just Sony ones. So basically they are saying the camera is operating normally and as expected. I pushed for some clarification on other models if they are affected by this and the impression I get is that if you get a green line on your images then this is "normal"

I'm not entirely convinced about this and I have relayed that to the Sony guy dealing with this case. I'm not in a position to test other Sony SLT or NEX products to see if this is an issue, but this is basically it as far as I can go with Sony directly on this case. (make of that what you will, I feel the guy is trying to help but can't go further)

Regarding the service side, which let's be blunt was a complete disaster from the start, he has said that an investigation took place and internal measures were taken to ensure this doesn't happen again. So reading between the lines a few people probably got a bit of a telling off on this case! That is something at least, no customer should have to have such a terrible experience, lack of communication and months of delays. So we can hope that this might have helped for future customers, so it's not been a waste of time in that respect.

On the service side he said due to the way the case was handled (or rather not!) That Sony will make a gesture of goodwill to compensate me for the silly amount of time spent on this (and epic failure of customer support), we shall see what that is shortly.

On the actual green line issue, I am personally not convinced this is an issue with all CMOS sensors, nor am I sure it's a satisfactory resolution to the "problem" I will have to see if this is going to cause a problem for real world shooting. I have to go to a few churches for pre-wedding scouting shots and I will go looking for the problem in other cases too. He's said I can contact him again if I find anything revealing, I might try some tripod night shots too as this could cause problems.

My gut feeling is telling me that there might be an issue with this sensor (seems odd a NEX5n same sensor he said) and possibly not as much or an issue with other sensors. I didn't expect Sony to admit they had a defective product (and in some ways it could be described as this) Where I go from here well I'm not really sure if I go anywhere, it really depends if this problem pops up doing real photography.

[classiccameras]

Well done Barry
Keep our fingers crossed for you, they should have at least given you a new body.

Would it be worth contacting other forums such as Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc. to see if this odd green light phenonema has affected them. If not the Sony guy is fobbing you off with a feeble excuse.
My feeling is that Sony are now backed into a corner with no where to hide.

[DrScottNicol]

It's a small consolation given the service you received from Sony I know but I can honestly say that those couple of shots from that night are the only time this issue has affected any of my Sony Cameras including numerous night shots with bright lights in them.

My nex 6 is at the welsh service centre as we speak for a warranty repair (a broken speaker of all things) so fingers cross that's a much more straightforward and rapid repair than what you've experienced.

[bfitzgerald]

What puzzles me is that I would expect to find at least a fair few threads on this problem from various makers (and I'm not), and you would think it would certainly show up for night photography shots. If that's the case then the camera "might" be pretty much unusable for that type of work. Can't comment on the interior shots as of yet, but it could be an issue for that type of work also. Most of the threads I've seen are from video users with issues of a similar nature, not stills shooters.

Do I think Sony are fobbing me off? To a point I do, though I do feel the person I have been dealing with is genuine and has tried to help I'll give him that. I will be testing the camera out in normal use and if I run into this issue again, then I'll be pushing it again with Sony. If that fails then I have the option of being a bit more prolific and public about the problem. At the moment it's not caused an issue with normal shooting ie people shots outside and stuff like that scenic shots, but I'll know more when I actually use the camera more as I've not had it for so long.

If I went full on with this I'm sure I could get a refund, as consumer laws are quite strong here. I also mentioned this "green line issue" is nowhere to be seen in the user manual no mention at all of it anywhere. That doesn't allow a user to make an informed buying choice. I'm not angry, but I think Sony are ducking the issue here no question.

As for the service side we can only hope this doesn't happen to other users who send stuff in for repair.
I honestly don't expect another camera to be offered as compensation, I have no idea what they will offer. Even a direct replacement didn't resolve this issue (though the level gauge was faulty as well on the first body) It has been a lot of hassle which isn't good PR for any company.

[classiccameras]

It looks like Sony are on a damage limitation exercise and the person you are dealing with as nice and as helpful as he might appear, is their 'put things right' intermediary.
If as Sony say it is something that APS-C CMOS sensors exhibit now and again, then lets see if the same problems exist with other cameras, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

[bfitzgerald]

Does sound like damage limitation to me. I have been looking for similar issues in sensor blooming in CMOS sensors and surprise I found another NEX 5n example

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mimura1018 ... otostream/

I've not been able to find any A65/77 or as yet A55 samples showing the same problem. I ran across some sensor blooming threads on the D700, but it was quite unlike this green issue. The weather is too wild here to do any night photos constant rain and heavy winds, but a quite preliminary goof around showed street lighting will cause the effect at higher ISO levels.

The Sony guy emailed me back again and has offered me a €60 voucher to use ordering from Sony