Sony Support/Service - My opinion

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classiccameras
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by classiccameras »

Don't accept the money voucher, once you do, they have thus closed the book to any possible further discussions you may wish to pursue.

I would politely not accept it.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

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I'm considering a few options here, one of which might be to pursue Sony in a small claims court. I think I can prove quite easily that the product is flawed/faulty (at least in some respects) I'm really not happy about this "brushing it under the carpet" approach, and I'm not buying the all CMOS sensors line either. I've looked at a lot of images from CMOS sensors and bar the NEX5 (found a few on that) I can't find anything even remotely like this green line blooming from Canon or any other makers.

Very mixed feelings and honestly I think €60 is a pretty mean offer for all the hassle I have had. But the service side is a separate matter to this sensor problem.

I've emailed him back saying I cannot accept the offer, as I am still of the view that this issue has not been resolved. I'm not expecting anything to change Sony's end, but I mentioned "other options" open to me. The small claims court PDF form is on the desktop, and it's only €25 to file that. It's now up to Sony on this one.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

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I've conducted some more tests in order to determine how much of a problem this could be for certain types of shooting. I took a series of test shots at night with normal street lighting present at various ISO levels.

I found that the green line was just about visible but fairly mild at ISO 200, increasing in intensity as you up the sensitivity.

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The size of the line/s will match the source, so just as the NEX5n sample showed a bigger strong light source will give a wider larger band across the image. At a certain point the line kicks in (there has to be a fairly strong contrast from light to dark) once it's there; bar not having the light source in the shot it's difficult to avoid. I can conclude that night photography will be difficult with this camera even at lower ISO levels. And very likely to cause problems for low light street shooting.

I have to do my church test shots shortly before I can see if that is likely to be a problem.
I did get another email off the same guy, who has said he is looking at the case again. This clearly is not a problem shared across all CMOS sensors, that much is certain.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Another update from Sony.


Thank you for your email.
I am currently reviewing your case and will have further information shortly.
In the meantime can you please advise what you would deem to be appropriate action from Sony to address this matter? As we have replaced your camera and explained the reasons behind the lines which have appeared in some of your photographs, under what are specific circumstances.

Thank you for your continued feedback and your patience throughout the matter.

Best regards,


I did send the image above to Sony as well as the link to the NEX5n
The excuses about specific circumstances are basically the line from the imaging team in Brussels. I've pretty much said appropriate action if they are unable or unwilling to address this fault is either provide a product that does not have the problem, or to compensate me for what is a flawed product. I've also let them know I am considering a small claims court as a last resort action on this.

I've also reminded them of the sale of goods act and specifically "fit for purpose" I don't consider it reasonable to have big green lines in images acceptable or fit for purpose, even if it happens in "these situations"

I think we're closing to the end game on this one, and I don't expect Sony to try to resolve this. They're basically in denial on the issue, trying to say it's normal for CMOS sensors just isn't showing up. If that were the case I'd see a ton of images showing this problem, I've yet to find any bar some issues with a D700 sensor, but not a green line problem, it was sensor blooming though but evidently it would seem not all D700's had this.

I'm expecting to have to file that claim, which is fine because I know I can back it up. Most of these claims never go to court (for obvious reasons) but I'm pretty confident I can prove the product is flawed and defective, I've plenty of green line shots to show if needed. It would be a shame to go down this route, but again we've got a re-run of the Pentax situation, they'll basically admit there is a problem..but do absolutely nothing about it.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

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I got this response:
Dear Mr Fitzgerald,

Thank you for your response.

As we have previously discussed the SLT-A57 camera is not faulty and the green lines which you refer to are a result of the very specific lightening conditions combined with the settings which you are using.
Various other manufacturers cameras with similar sized cmos sensors also demonstrate this effect under these conditions.

Please be aware the "Sale of Goods Act" is a contract entered with the retailer at the time of purchase. As such any action taken would be against Argos and not Sony.
Our final offer to you to resolve this matter would be for you to return the camera to us and once received to refund the original purchase price.
Please advise how you wish to proceed so that we may conclude this matter.



I'll have to chat to my local citizens information on this one, to see how best to proceed. (yes it usually is with the seller, but in this case I'm not so sure)
On the CMOS sensor issue, again they're in denial as far as I can see.
However I will consider the refund offer, but I am certainly not paying for return postage costs.

I have advised him that I found the €60 offer embarrassing and quite inappropriate. Sadly a poor end result on this one, whatever I do Sony just won't actually take the steps to fix the problem, and yes it is a problem. Anyway I think we've dragged this one on long enough..
classiccameras
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by classiccameras »

Barry
Stop messing and get your refund, then start again, may be a different model or time to jump ship.

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I can get the refund no problem, that's fine I can deal with that. What bothers me is that this is a real issue, and it's getting swept under the carpet. Basically night shooting or interior shots, well you may well run into problems with this model.
classiccameras
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by classiccameras »

Get a few major review sites on your side such as DPReviews and see what they think.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I've started a thread on DPR just a compressed version of this but simply the sensor issue (already have another one on their support)
Purely to see if anyone else has had this problem, esp on larger APS-C CMOS sensors.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51458498

Should be interesting
classiccameras
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by classiccameras »

That's great, at least there is some dialogue now on the subject.

Have you looked at the Alphamountworld forum, it might be helpful, also Micheal Hohner and Kurt Munger may have some thoughts.
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by MarcoC »

barry, life is too short to stress indefinitely about this - you got Sony to agree to a refund - now get them to arrange for courier collection at their expense and you are sorted. Move on, all this stress isn't good for anyone. I'm sorry you had the runaround from Sony but as you say, you are near the end game now.
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bakubo
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by bakubo »

I suggest taking the full refund while it is offered, run, and be done with it.

I bought a KM 7D in early 2005 that had a tilted sensor so after only having it a few days I sent it to Phil Bradon. He decided it was too difficult to fix so he sent me a new 7D. That one had AF problems the whole time I had it so that I often gave up and just used MF. Probably 75% of the photos I took with it while I owned it were done MF. I sent that one in 5 times for repair to KM U.S.A., KM Canada, and then at the end to Sony. By the last time I sent it in to Sony it had also developed the infamous FFB problem. Sony "fixed" it but it still had the AF problem and the FFB problem. Finally, after getting it escalated they agreed to refund the full amount. I had the camera for 1.5 years, but was really happy to get the $1500 back. I bought a Canon 30D and it was flawless (my earlier 300D and later 60D were also flawless). Kudos to Sony back then for doing something good, but it only happened because someone on dpreview contacted me by email and gave me the name, email address, and phone number for someone several levels up in Sony U.S.A. She was a very nice lady and she asked that I send it in one more time, but after that didn't fix it she offered me the full refund. Of course, later Sony's dealing with the A700 problem was not good and the lady seemed to no longer be at Sony.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Henry that KM 7d story is quite odd, though I heard of some stories of AF issues with some bodies it didn't seem widespread. Never had a problem with my Km5d bought in 2006 AF is just fine (though rather pedestrian by modern standards)

I can report I hit Sony again (with some force) on facebook with a nice green line photo, and across all their main FB sites using a translator for regions where my language skills were not up to the job. I quite quickly got a phone call the next day and an improved offer or compensation in this case. The reason I wasn't keen on sending it back for a full refund was quite simple. Sony seemed to for some reason (and I never discussed it with the Sony guy), sent me an 18-135mm lens, and not the 18-55mm. If this was a mistake or a gesture I have no idea. If I went for the refund I'd have to return this too

Sony improved their offer of compensation for this case for a voucher of €200. In this case I accepted this as satisfactory.
So overall I am "up"
18-135mm lens
Another battery/charger
€200 voucher
12 months new warranty on new camera body
This pretty much wipes out the cost of the initial A57 purchase

I only agreed this closed the warranty case in this instance. I made no agreements (nor was I asked to) about not talking about the issue on-line.
I have my thread up on DPR now, and that shows up quickly with a google search on "green lines" I adjusted my Amazon UK review of the A57 to reflect the sensor flaw in some situations, and have a sample up there.

The reality is unless an angry mob of A57 or NEX5n users come forward I don't think anything will happen on this. I've raised the issue as much as possible, I also sent a message to Chris Bowen Sony UK/Ire Head (no I don't expect a reply at all but hey it's done)

One thing is for sure, using facebook is hugely effective, it applies public pressure and it's like pulling a Panzerschreck out of your pocket you suddenly have a lot more fire-power than a normal single effort would have. If I run into any more green line issues in the real world (ie taking shots I want to take rather than taking shots showing it) then I'll update this thread if needed. I have to assume as so far as few if any are talking about this they either have not noticed it or it doesn't bother them. IMO it was well worth the time and effort going after Sony though esp in regards to the ongoing delays and poor service.
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bakubo
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by bakubo »

bfitzgerald wrote:Henry that KM 7d story is quite odd, though I heard of some stories of AF issues with some bodies it didn't seem widespread. Never had a problem with my Km5d bought in 2006 AF is just fine (though rather pedestrian by modern standards)
I didn't say it was a problem with all KM 7D bodies. I have no idea. All I know is that the one I had (the one that replaced the first defective KM 7D) had it and 5 trips in for repair didn't get it fixed. Sony finally gave up and said they couldn't fix it so they offered me the full refund. By then I had suffered with 2 defective KM 7D bodies for 1.5 years so I was thrilled to get my money back and get something that worked without a single problem the whole time I owned it (the Canon 30D).
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony Support/Service - My opinion

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I don't really understand how a camera can have 5 trips to service and not be fixed. Maybe there are Gremlin cameras out there that just can't be put right. I had 3 Nikon repair attempts that just didn't solve my AF problems.
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