A58 coming with 20Mp and increased DR???

[alphaomega]

SAR rumour

[- The A58 will have a 20 megapixel sensor capable of shooting at 8fps (frames per second).
- The body has the same size as the current A57.
- It will have a brand new focusing system that he said is “very cool” (you may tell us more about it?)
- you will be able to control the camera from a computer (like all the Canons) but it wont have Wi-Fi.
- Price is $599/quote]
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-new- ... unced-too/
And there is more to thrill those looking for even more DR

(SR4) Short update about the new A58 sensor….


Just a short notice about the new A58 sensor. As I told you it has 20 Megapixels. I’ve now been told by one source that this sensor should have a “greatly improved Dynamic Range” compared to previous generation sensors.

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-shor ... 58-sensor/
I feel giddy at the nudge nudge effect of Sony coming out with virtually blasts of model releases in all three lines (Cybershot, NEX and Alpha) at short intervals with small increments to induce you to drop what you have and join the new Nirvana. Until I read this I thought 16Mp was enough for me (I accept 20Mp in my RX-100 though) and all my cameras had enough DR, but no, I need 20Mp even at entry level (or nearly) and more DR until the next increment appears in the autumn or maybe even earlier.
For me 2013 consists of getting a 10-18 wide angle for my NEX system when "the price is right".

[bfitzgerald]

Some of that is a bit "vague"
No idea on the AF side of things (though I did not have any complaints on the A57 for that)
16 to 20mp is a very small step and not worth it for most. As for DR we will have to see on that side of things. I'm sure A77 users will be thrilled to bits with tethering on a lower priced body

For me the hot shoe change is a very good incentive to "not" look at any new Alpha models (nice to be able to use my flashes without adaptors!). I think I'll pass on this one and dig around for some s/h deals on DSLR's in the second half of the year.

This is just a general comment applies across makers but the "thrill and excitement" of years past seems entirely gone in recent years, ie new models etc etc. I just don't find it that interesting any more. Maybe that's partly down to some fairly predictable and modest updates across makers/models there is really no "wow factor" in 2013 nor has there been for a number of years. Really rather boring all we expect in a few more years is yet more pixels (sigh) and no doubt 4k video (which I couldn't care less about)

The BIG wow was lost in a spectacular way last year when Sony priced the A99 beyond the reach of most buyers. I expect full frame to really heat up and Sony will be left behind here unless they pick their game up significantly.

[Dusty]

This is great new! A few months later, I should be able to pick up a Nikon with this sensor and a proper OVF.

Dusty

[bakubo]

This is great new! A few months later, I should be able to pick up a Nikon with this sensor and a proper OVF.

Dusty, you are such a card!

[bfitzgerald]

I'd be pretty cautious about Nikon!
Maybe Canon could be worth a look even if their sensors are not as good

If Sony actually sorted out some of the issues on the A57 such as handling gripes, lousy jpegs and allowed a vertical grip option it might be worth a look. I won't hold my breath though.
Nikon could be great if their QC wasn't so lousy.

[alphaomega]

The SAR chap is getting more secret rumours about the A58

(SR4) UPDATED: Sony A58 Dynamic Range improvement confirmed.


An anonymous Sony A58 tester just sent me an info that the new Sony sensor powering the upcoming A58 has indeed an improved dynamic range. He said he never was able to see so many details in the shadows. This all sounds very promising!

By the way, there is some uncertainty about the exact release date. But it should be announced next week and if not…then the week after.

Sony A58 specs reminder:

- The A58 will have a 20 megapixel sensor capable of shooting at 8fps (frames per second).
- The body has the same size as the current A57.
- It will have a brand new focusing system that he said is “very cool” (you may tell us more about it?)
- you will be able to control the camera from a computer (like all the Canons) but it wont have Wi-Fi.
- Price is $599

No doubt the DR bit and the details in the shadow will interest Agorabasta. Maybe we don't need to move away from the bayer concept after all.
The body "has the same size as the current A57", but Sony may have listened to Barry fitzgerald (or not) and changed the shape a little. Maybe at some stage a third party supplier will introduce a vertical grip if Sony stays with the same body shape to make it worth while. Probably not. With a bit of luck the Jpegs may look better this time. there is always hope. In any event I always use the RAW files. The FPS looks good at 8 frames/S. Faster AF is always welcome. I wonder why such improvements are introduced to a cheaper model after the release of the A99. To my way of thinking faster AF and greater DR should have been first in the NEX top model as well as the top APS-C and FF Alphas. Just my way of thinking.

[agorabasta]

No doubt the DR bit and the details in the shadow will interest Agorabasta. Maybe we don't need to move away from the bayer concept after all.

Not yet, really...
Just as Barry mentioned, it's all far too "a bit 'vague'" at the moment. Then keep in mind that Bayer is rather bad at DR as red/blue channels are too weak and hence noisy. And then, Sony use non-Bayer arrays in their CineAlta's, and that's for a good reason.

But one may keep dreaming...

[bfitzgerald]

The 16mp CMOS has plenty of DR in the shadows, where we need more DR is the highlights not the shadow end.
I won't dismiss it out of hand, but I'd be more inclined to think it's marketing speak v a massive DR boost to the sensor.

How it does in low light should be interesting though should be better than the 24mp sensor in the A65/77, maybe it will be better than the 16mp CMOS sensor.
I doubt there is enough here for A57 users to update body though.

[alphaomega]

The 16mp CMOS has plenty of DR in the shadows, where we need more DR is the highlights not the shadow end.

Barry Fitzgerald has a point, but if this new sensor does have more DR than the current 16Mp then we are just back to the old question of do you expose for the shadow or highlight area? If the new 20Mp sensor is better at the shadow end then expose slightly towards the shadow end and gain more detail in the highlights. It is a matter of looking at the beast and deciding how to manage it. I agree that in extreme situations the 16Mp in my NEX-6 can run out of DR so an improvement could be useful if you do a lot of this kind of photography. I don't.

[bakubo]

The 16mp CMOS has plenty of DR in the shadows, where we need more DR is the highlights not the shadow end.

Can't you just expose less, since the shadows are so good, to get the same result? In fact, couldn't Sony just have the meter always expose less?

[bfitzgerald]

No idea.
IMO I've not yet found a sensor where I can treat it like negative film and aggressively expose for the shadows and still hold the highlights (the Fuji EXR sensors are close though). The 16mp CMOS is no different really not that much highlight improvement v older sensors (a bit but not hugely so) where it gains is pulling up shadow end which you now do without much fear. Maybe that's why they have DRO in camera it pulls up the shadows.

For all the big DR numbers on DxO I'm still left wondering how the hell they pull such numbers because I'm not seeing it. I have to actually drop the shadows down on my film scans because there is so much shadow detail. I messed around with some FP4 Ilford and pulled out some daft exposures well over and under the metered reading even spot metered off the sky on one shot still failed to plug the shadow region!

For me when the DR nut is cracked is when I no longer have to worry about blowing out highlights or highlight recovery. Highlights are the only DR that matters to me.

[agorabasta]

If the new 20Mp sensor is better at the shadow end then expose slightly towards the shadow end and gain more detail in the highlights.

Nopsies!
The primary source of noise is already the very photonic nature of light. So getting the best image quality with the given cam means stepping ISO as low as possible, just to keep the quantum nature of light as low as possible in the whole 'picture'.
So lifting the shadows comes with lifting of some of that natural noise as well. So you need to keep the lowest ISO available as low as possible. Hence you cannot juggle the DR up and down at will, as the tail is nailed to the best possible image quality at the lowest ISO value available.

[classiccameras]

I'm worried that higher pixel counts just bring more noise The Nikon 3200 is a good case in point, so there will be ever more processing to reduce the effect. Sony have not got the best of reputations in how they deal with noise so far. I have never relied on DX0 reports no matter how high the reading. They can give low scores on 12 or 16 mp cameras regardless of the fact that some can give stunning IQ, in the real world DxO is to a point irrelevant.
I just hope the A58 has been suitably modified to give better high ISO performance and better DR without smearing over detail, I wonder if there will be an A38?
I totally agree, use the lowest ISO you can.

[Greg Beetham]

From what I’ve been reading lately it probably doesn’t matter if pixels get smaller, apparently they have the ability to separate an individual diffraction point into four separate points now and register on four separate pixels and then register that as one pixel with one exposure value, or maybe four separate exposure values depending on the filter density or the sampling range.
Also they have been experimenting (or have put into practice) with moving the AA filter to 45⁰ and then cut a dual channel pixel in half with each half registering two separate exposure values for possibly more highlight and lowlight range and thus giving the sensor much more overall dynamic range.
So who knows anymore what’s actually in a given sensor for sure, it’s anyone’s guess, the makers don’t give out much if any propriety information, the A99 could have some of the above or none, maybe chipworks might get hold of one sometime, but they don’t release much info either, beyond what the ones who pay them (mucho dinero) for the info will let them.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Some images of the A58
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-firs ... y-slt-a58/

They've put the (proprietary) multi interface shoe on there as expected.
The LCD looks like it is A37 style ie no rotation as per A57 (silly downgrade IMO)
They moved the zoom button to the exp comp button location on the A57 (let's just get RID of the stupid zoom button full stop)

Unless the sensor is something astonishing it doesn't look like a very interesting update to me