Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

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bfitzgerald
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Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:56 am

Wow Sony really are cutting back on costs.

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/sony- ... ePHOTOzine)

I'm actually shocked to see this in 2013. I know we put up with the partial metal mount for too long (really should be fully metal) but this is a real step backwards.
Might have passed years ago with super budget 35mm bodies having a plastic mount, but 2013 no way...

Even Canon's EOS 1100d has a full metal mount. Sony are really penny pinching here

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:14 pm

Yah plastic mount that Sony says “shouldn’t” be a problem, Sony didn’t say “WON’T” be a problem…if you notice.
The new luminous colour selections should be a hit too, (no kidding I can hardly wait, kaf kaf) second last paragraph in the dpr announcement, http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/02/20/Sony-announces-Alpha-SLT-A58-20MP-DSLR-style-camera-with-SVGA-OLED-viewfinder
The A58 is the first ever A-mount camera from Sony offering ‘TRILUMINOUS Colour’ experience a dramatically expanded palette of vivid, ultra realistic colours ….erm hold the bus, what is ultra-realistic? How do you get more realistic than realistic?
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:46 pm

Just gimmicks Greg same as the auto framing nonsense I don't care if they do stuff like that, but they've actually downgraded this model quite a bit.
Plastic mount (which is unacceptable at any price point), lower fps shooting too, they took the remote socket out evidently (no idea if the IR one is there it can use both on the A57), smaller body (A57 is small enough IMO) downgraded the rear LCD (one of the nicer things on the A57)

And charge £450 which is about the same as the A57 is now. Evidently this replaces both the A37 and A57, they'd want to do something pretty amazing with a new A65. I can't really see how the A58 is going to sell even at a cut down price. Now we see the real motivation for the new multi interface hot shoe, to remove remote sockets and save even more cash on production.

I can't wait to get my A57 back because this is a step backwards on that model even if the sensor is great who cares. The 5 series should have been dead easy to update (that means improve not make worse) Putting that plastic mount on there is a step too far, I'm really surprised Sony would try to pull a stunt like that. Like I said I think Sony will dump A mount and this is more evidence of a lack of thinking/effort. They've changed everything bar the mount or taking out the in body AF motor.

Oh and looks like there is no hot shoe cover (again) so that will be nice for getting all those small contacts covered in dirt! Way to go Sony you're on a roll!

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby classiccameras » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:43 pm

I'm going to wait to see how many A57's come on the used market after owners chop in their A57 for the A58. There may well be some bargains to be had.
For a mid range enthusiasts camera, a plastic mount is unacceptable.
Does it also mean that the A37 is dropped with no replacement other than the A58!! What is Sony up to, are they broke or what.
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby agorabasta » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:19 pm

Greg Beetham wrote:The A58 is the first ever A-mount camera from Sony offering ‘TRILUMINOUS Colour’ experience a dramatically expanded palette of vivid, ultra realistic colours ….erm hold the bus, what is ultra-realistic? How do you get more realistic than realistic?

They use that 'TRILUMINOS' thing in their TV's. Essentially, it's just dynamic backlighting with RGB LED's. Means that the low-freq components of image are created by backlight, then the LCD adds the higher spatial freq's by further filtering.

What does it mean in relation to cameras remains unknown. Either it's simply nothing, like reducing saturation in the output feed when connected to such a saturation-boosted TV, or it could mean some change to the sensor's colour filters which is possible considering their claims of added DR - but that's very unlikely

The increased DR may be coming from updated sensor fab process, like with that copper wiring on the Tosh chip in d5200, plus maybe 14-bit sensor readout that could also explain the reduced framerates for both stills and video.

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:24 pm

I haven’t been keen on the design of that enclosed type flash shoe mount from the start because it’s a potential water trap without a well-designed sealing cover. If a few raindrops fall into the flash shoe with the camera tilted forward the water is going to sit across all those connectors as there doesn’t look like there is a way for it to drain out, and I don’t like the sound of that.
So yes with that type of hot shoe it would be essential to have a way to guarantee that no water can get in the forward section of it and remain there, could be some warranty claims coming up…maybe.
It’s interesting that Sony is replacing two models with one, that’s not the usual Sony marketing strategy, they usually like lots of entry models with various reductions in features and usefulness and a corresponding increase of flim flam.
Interesting times for the A-mount and more to come I think they’ve still got the A65 to replace or discontinue yet.
Greg
Ps woudn’t it be a blast if the sensor in the A58 is a lot better than the one in the A65 or A77?

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:32 pm

agorabasta wrote:They use that 'TRILUMINOS' thing in their TV's. Essentially, it's just dynamic backlighting with RGB LED's. Means that the low-freq components of image are created by backlight, then the LCD adds the higher spatial freq's by further filtering.

What does it mean in relation to cameras remains unknown. Either it's simply nothing, like reducing saturation in the output feed when connected to such a saturation-boosted TV, or it could mean some change to the sensor's colour filters which is possible considering their claims of added DR - but that's very unlikely

The increased DR may be coming from updated sensor fab process, like with that copper wiring on the Tosh chip in d5200, plus maybe 14-bit sensor readout that could also explain the reduced framerates for both stills and video.


Yes the splurb did mention using a Sony TV to get the benefit of the 'TRILUIMIOS' stills and video, great marketing ploy Sony.
Greg

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Greg the sensor will be better than the old 24mp one, it might even be better than the 16mp one who knows or who cares being more appropriate. They also cut the full res fps to erm 5fps giving it no advantage v say the Canon 650d which is selling for around the same estimated price.

I'd have doubts about water and dirt on that number of contacts myself which is why other makers have not followed that path (and they won't either)
This evidently replaces both the A37 and A57 so just one entry model. I'd expect a new A77 as a goodbye gift for A mount users, A65 who knows they need it now more than ever. 2014 will be NEX all the way IMO. The lack of effort on this model is indicative of a company that isn't very interested in it's SLT products.

I'm still shocked by the all plastic mount, it's a move that is frankly absurd and likely to not go down well.

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Greg Beetham » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:47 pm

Yeah Barry I just think getting rid of two models and replacing them with one is a peculiar move for Sony (going by past efforts), not only that the reduction in quality of it externally (the flash shoe is esentially a reduction in quality too) means the model is even more of a disposable item now than before I think. Is the P&S death spiral affecting the SLR side of the industry more than I thought? If that's the case then an emphasis on NEX might make more sense...maybe and all A-mount users can just get along with a NEX and an adaptor. Sounds far fetched though.
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:41 pm

This is Sony nothing is far fetched!
Just think OM-D and 4/3 to micro 4/3 and you get the idea.

Sony has at this time only 3 current SLT Models (we have no idea if there will be a 6 series body) this model replaces 2 models, and Sony are cutting back on costs with more plastic v the A57. So 3 SLT's the A77 will have to get an update later in the year, but that's your bye bye parting gift. They will probably run those models in production for a while. But offer a "bigger" NEX body with adaptors for A mount lenses, maybe a DSLR "looking" body

Sony are going insane on cost cutting so it would not shock me at all, they would then be able to concentrate on E mount and forget A mount entirely.
I could be wrong (and hope I am) but you have to admit the A58 isn't exactly the best effort we've seen, in fact they bashed it out without a care in the world even the press release looked rushed to me.

I don't actually mind much anyway I can run with what I have for a few years (or hit ebay and pick up a few s/h bodies) leaving a nice jar in the kitchen with "Canon full frame body" taped onto it. That's where I'd be heading when the ship starts to keel over :mrgreen:

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby agorabasta » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:59 pm

Here's my idea of what they really are trying to do with that bastardly a58 - they try to not push the sensor speed too far, that's quite contrary to what they've been doing lately, so they take the cheapest approach to this clearly trial product intro.

The real reason for high noise seen in the a77 captures is that the sensor is read too fast plus that the sensor is poorly cooled due to the SSS preventing adequate heatsink.

So now they have a new less ambitious sensor, so they take a less ambitious approach at its handling - they lower the framerates, lower the power consumption, read the sensor slowly (just like Nikon always did), etc. So they introduce it in the body least expensive to produce so that if the experiment doesn't work, they have less to write off. Hence, a basic a38 project is labelled a58 simply due to the new sensor. Having that plastic mount there simply proves their 'write-off' attitude to this experimental product; or it could even be an attempt of sabotage by those engineers who pumped out noisy fast bodies in the recent past.

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Atgets_Apprentice » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:52 pm

agorabasta wrote:or it could even be an attempt of sabotage by those engineers who pumped out noisy fast bodies in the recent past.



Or an attempt at sabotage to kill off interest in the A mount....
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Heidfirst » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:00 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:
I'm still shocked by the all plastic mount, it's a move that is frankly absurd and likely to not go down well.

it's not all plastic, it's plastic, plastic, metal with the retention bit being metal & the front plastic only a bearing face.
Given that this appears to be the entry model now & all the research says that the vast majority of such customers never buy any other lenses or at most 1 more even the bearing face being plastic shouldn't really be an issue.
I suspect that the perception is likely to be more negative than actual performance.

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:18 am

Plastic is plastic this is the first time an all plastic lens mount has been on the market for a long time (Bar the cheapie 35mm bodies of years past)
For the sake of a few pennies it's a pointless compromise to make, and I for one will not condone such a silly move.

If it were such a good idea Canikon would have plastic mounts, yet they have full metal mounts across their range. No maker (bar Sony) are stupid enough to put a plastic mount on a camera. There are no excuses saying the majority of users will mount plastic lenses isn't convincing, esp not with the number of affordable s/h Minolta lenses with metal mounts. If anything Sony should have upgraded the mount to fully metal including the tabs which should be metal anyway. (like everyone else has)

You won't be able to use a wired remote with a flash in the shot shoe either (another dumb move), the LCD is smaller and half the res of the A57, the shooting rate is half the A57 too. Not much of an update is it really? This will bomb sales wise as it's not appealing enough to attract upgraders from A mount, and new buyers will mock the plastic mount v other makers products. This is the start of Sony's SLT range being irrelevant to the market (it can't even offer high fps anymore)
Last edited by bfitzgerald on Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:23 am

What is surprising is that the metal mount component is a standardized part - the whole mount bayonet assembly can consist of common parts. What economy can be achieved by changing to an engineering plastic mount, which may wear quite badly when some metal mount lenses are fitted to it and perhaps even shed particles into the camera interior, baffles me. Surely economy of production scale would have made keeping to the existing metal mount cost no more.

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