Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:06 pm

A560 was a Jessops only exclusive I think it was not on full release worldwide or Europe.
A580 was, but it got almost no marketing from Sony (least from what I saw the SLT's got the adverts)

A700 MkII would be a nice camera, update the sensor, live view/focus peaking, tweak some controls, add video few other things and happy days for most A mount users
A580 with dual dials, shove a K-30 penta prism VF in there no sealing etc again another hit for mid level users. A more affordable A700 MkII

To be fair to Canon their 450-650d range has got better over time I was using a 650d the other day and it's quite a decent camera. One trick Sony have missed (and an obvious one) is messing around with their strange LCD articulations, Canon have it right you can mount in on the tripod and rotate the LCD towards you (useful for video) you can fold the LCD back to protect it or use it as a normal LCD, or fold it out and shoot lower or higher up. It's the obvious most logical way to do LCD articulation.

Sony's way is strange some models have only a limited movement, some have the rotation at the bottom, some have full rotation but if you have a microphone in the hot shoe you can't see it! Never understood that.

Onto the model despite some niggles and not actually having the A57 for that long (waiting for that back) it wasn't a bad body bar some silly control issues ie pointless buttons and annoying nag screens (not resolved on the A58 either) Maybe an A65 update can address that, but there is no sign of that turning up

So 3 models pricey A99, A77 with it's non low light appeal and now just the A58 not the strongest line up has to be said. Basically mid level users not wanting to splash out too much, but wanting more than a basic body are left entirely out of the picture. I find that very odd and counter productive, hence my views on the A58

Whilst I'm here just noticed on the Sony store they are concealing the fact the camera has a plastic mount:

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... 1666536167

No shots of the camera without a lens attached, if you click on the A57 the very first thing you see is a metal lens mount.
Sony are being a tad deceptive here as if buyers are not going to notice this very quickly.

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... 1666433223

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby KevinBarrett » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:51 am

bfitzgerald wrote:Whilst I'm here just noticed on the Sony store they are concealing the fact the camera has a plastic mount:

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... 1666536167

No shots of the camera without a lens attached, if you click on the A57 the very first thing you see is a metal lens mount.
Sony are being a tad deceptive here as if buyers are not going to notice this very quickly.

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... 1666433223


They also don't seem to be offering a body-only option for the A58. It's with-a-kit-lens or not at all.
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Winkler Prins » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:16 am

bfitzgerald wrote:A700 MkII would be a nice camera, update the sensor, live view/focus peaking, tweak some controls, add video few other things and happy days for most A mount users

That would be a Nikon D7000, costing 1200 euro.
bfitzgerald wrote:A580 with dual dials, shove a K-30 penta prism VF in there no sealing etc again another hit for mid level users. A more affordable A700 MkII
Well, Sony could not afford to cripple the A580 the way Pentax crippled the K30. They had to, in order to be able to offer a prism for that price. A580 with penta prism compares to Canon 60D costing 1000 euro.

Instead you bought a Sony A57 for 750 euro. No offense, but i think you desire a camera that you can't afford and now you're blaming Sony for it.

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby KevinBarrett » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:23 am

Winkler Prins wrote:No offense, but i think you desire a camera that you can't afford and now you're blaming Sony for it.

As a moderator, I have to identify this as inflammatory and caution you against such assertions. However, I think we all want a camera that we can't afford, or choose not to afford, and when the company you've invested in is firmware-crippling bodies to protect the sales of its higher end bodies, it's hard not to feel sore. Barry Fitzgerald might complain a lot, but at least he did something about it and tested the waters elsewhere.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:20 am

If I remember rightly the D7000 cost £1100 on first release and the A77 cost £1150 (Uk prices) so no cost saving there (A77 is selling for £799 right now v £620 odd D7k again no cost incentive)
I'm not sure how Pentax crippled the K-30 I don't care for the look of the camera but that's not a bad price for a PP VF camera.

D90 old or not sells for £399 on blowout sales.
I'm sure a PP A580 would be realistic at a £500-£600 price point (plastic body of course, but not mount!)

No idea why the A58 has no body only option I suspect they will change that at some point

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Heidfirst » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:29 pm

KevinBarrett wrote:
Winkler Prins wrote: when the company you've invested in is firmware-crippling bodies to protect the sales of its higher end bodies, it's hard not to feel sore. .

They all do though - Canon, Nikon etc. as well.

Barry, D7k is older & replaced though ;)
You can find a new, UK stock A77V body only for £749 if you look & probably by the time it is replaced it will be into the £600s.
A D90 is a 5 year old body & outperformed by modern entry level models.
Also, any new in box stock will have been written down several times either by Nikon or the retailer. If Nikon were to bring out a modern replacement it wouldn't be £399 - the D5200 launched at £720 & the D5100 was seen by many as a stepdown from the D90 (a bit like some see the A58 from the A57) so a D90 replacement would probably have been £800+.

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:35 pm

I think the presence of the K-30 at that price point with a PP viewfinder shows that it's quite possible to make a camera that isn't expensive with such a viewfinder.
D90 is old yes but has a PP viewfinder and if you shoved a 16mp CMOS in there and did nothing at all you'd find it wouldn't cost that much to make.

Nikon put a low emphasis (IMO a mistake) on their viewfinders both the D3200 and D5100 have VF's that are worse than the Km5d I have (a bit smaller) Canon are a little better with the 650d but it's not much of an improvement due to the 1.6x crop (bit bigger than Nikon's VF)

I very much doubt the A77 will be down to £600 as Sony have shown no desire to price match rivals, and clearly it's higher than rivals entry price shows Sony are not willing to pass on any cost savings to the customer. This is shared with the A99 which is priced at levels that will ensure it will be a failure in the market.

Back to the point in hand though, it is certainly possible for any maker to produce a decent PP VF DSLR at around the £600 price point (or less) that is beyond doubt as the K-30 proves.

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Winkler Prins » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:40 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:I'm not sure how Pentax crippled the K-30 I don't care for the look of the camera but that's not a bad price for a PP VF camera.

Read the review on DPreview.com
They had to cripple it in order to not have it compete with their own K5. Who wants to buy a K5 if K30 is cheaper and has same specs?
bfitzgerald wrote:Back to the point in hand though, it is certainly possible for any maker to produce a decent PP VF DSLR at around the £600 price point (or less) that is beyond doubt as the K-30 proves.

Maybe it is Pentax' last effort to stay alive in the camera business. Their mirrorless camera is being dropped already. Perhaps they are selling K30 below cost prize. After all, price is not based on what it costs to manufacture an item, it is based on what people are willing to spend on it.
Apart from that Pentax products are not different from Canon or Nikon products, they are merely less appealing. So why would anyone buy them?

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:30 pm

The K-01 was a sure fire miss from Pentax everyone knew that from day one. The only person to like it was the guy who got paid to (badly) design it Marc Newson I think. It was a DOA first day of release and a very ill advised effort from Pentax.

Maybe you would like to be more specific on how the K-30 is "crippled", I'd have changed a few things either do a proper lithium battery or just go with native AA's. As for the DPR comments on video buttons well be careful what you ask for I have one on my A57 that sits there doing nothing! DPR are in love with video and specific areas based around that, but they can criticise Pentax for poor battery life and not even mention it on the A99. DPR are very selective about what they say which is one reason I don't take their reviews very seriously (they IMO have an agenda and niggle on fairly pointless things)

I only had to use the A57 for a day to see it was a good camera, but not the gold award DPR suggested. They failed to mention any of the obvious issues with that model esp in relation to handling and design. Yet previously they were on a crusade with the "most useless button in the most useful position" ie the zoom button on Sony's DSLR cameras.

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby agorabasta » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:02 pm

Back to the plastic mounts...

Actually, I always wanted to change the mount on my a55 to full-metal one as that semi-plastic construction gave me too many problems.
Obviously, both the LA-EA1&2 have great metal mounts on the A-side. So maybe some day I'll give my a55 a new mount and a new mirror.
Would be better though to source those parts sold separately...

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby Winkler Prins » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:14 pm

agorabasta wrote:Back to the plastic mounts...
Back to whining?
Why did you buy that camera in the first place? Should have bought a580. At this moment your options are a57 and a65.

agorabasta wrote:So maybe some day
Yes maybe some day. Sony is sure going to miss the huge amounts of money you would have been spending on their products if only they had metal mounts. :)

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby pakodominguez » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:29 am

agorabasta wrote:Back to the plastic mounts...

Actually, I always wanted to change the mount on my a55 to full-metal one as that semi-plastic construction gave me too many problems.
Obviously, both the LA-EA1&2 have great metal mounts on the A-side. So maybe some day I'll give my a55 a new mount and a new mirror.
Would be better though to source those parts sold separately...

You can probably check older models, if the assembly is similar, cheaper that buying parts is buying an old Maxxum camera over eBay
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby agorabasta » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:06 pm

Pako, I think getting a new/used LA-EA1 would be a safer bet as it seems to share mount with a77. And I'm pretty sure that the mount front ring must go together with the aperture ring and its rollers, and their design has changed slightly with the SLT's.

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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby pakodominguez » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:46 pm

agorabasta wrote:Pako, I think getting a new/used LA-EA1 would be a safer bet as it seems to share mount with a77. And I'm pretty sure that the mount front ring must go together with the aperture ring and its rollers, and their design has changed slightly with the SLT's.

All this is for the A55, right? do you love that camera that much? In order to spend 100+ $ on an accessory only for the mount? Or you are planning this for the new A58 you are planning to buy?
I know we don't have yet a big deal on lenses for the sytem, but why not to stick to NEX for APS cameras?
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Re: Sony A58 "plastic lens mount"

Unread postby agorabasta » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:16 pm

pakodominguez wrote:All this is for the A55, right? do you love that camera that much?
It's small, got GPS - means good for travel. Works well with my manual Samyangs. And it's the least noisy of all APS SLT's.
Sure a Nex7 with adapter is better for ultimate quality, still the Nex feels much more awkward. And then the a55 uses the same battery, so may make a Nex7 backup for Alpha lenses.


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