No A78 this year according to SAR

[bfitzgerald]

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-also ... withdrawn/

If true I'm quite surprised as I expected Sony to unify the range with the new hot shoe (well one reason)
The other is I've only ever seen on user with an A77 (American tourist in Dingle!)

And Sony doesn't seem to want to discount the body much (about £750 right now above it's rivals D7k etc)
I'm not sure it's a great selling model for Sony, and I think the sensor is partly to blame.
It does look like A mount could be on the back burner this year, if true then the A58 is the only model launched this year

Thoughts?

[Atgets_Apprentice]

"The reason for it is that the A78 had too little improvements over the current A77. And it is Sony’s new policy to release a camera only if it brings considerably major advancements in features and image quality."

Utter fetlocks! How many models with purely cosmetic tweaks have Sony launched in the past? How many models that were actually worse than the camera they replaced? (i.e. the a200 having a poorer spec than the a100) Can Sony honestly say that the a58 is a "considerably major advancement" over the a57?

I'd like to think that Sony have decided to go back to the drawing board, and take into account what their users have been telling them they want to see, at last, but I reckon that would be utter fetlocks too.

[bfitzgerald]

It does seem quite an odd thing to hear. Let's look at the D7100 it's not "that upgraded" over the last model. Unless Sony feels they need to add more than a 24mp to this model (frankly anyone who's unhappy with 24mp needs counselling!)

Let's put it another way..what could be improved on the A77? I've only had a grab of that camera so can only think of a few things. I'm sure users could add a list of what they'd like on the A78

Otherwise I can't see this being a great move for Sony, we might slip back into the old ways of the A700 and just leaving the model out there to die a slow death. They did the same on the A900 too. I agree maybe there are too many updates on cameras (D300s users have a case though), but you can also leave it too long and people might wander off and lose interest. Either way the A77 looks set to stick around, but the only way the price can go is down..and that means lower margins for Sony too v a new model

[alphaomega]

"The reason for it is that the A78 had too little improvements over the current A77. And it is Sony’s new policy to release a camera only if it brings considerably major advancements in features and image quality."

When I read this I thought Sony might have reverted to a bit of "common sense". Microsoft take a couple of years to release a new operating system and similarly with Adobe, a couple of years lapse before the next version of CS or LR and in both cases major improvement in features or performance is incorporate to encourage upgrading.
Sony would do well to follow suit and give users one or two firmware upgrades in between like Microsoft's SP1, 2 etc.
Let's see what happens. I certainly think that Sony have released a lot of "beginner type" cameras in a rush and with little improvement and reduction in features. Personally I think there is still room for DSLRs. I mostly use NEX and RX100 now but when speed is a priority I haul out my A580 because it is not "fiddly" and you can change settings quickly and track objects faster. Also you can get a good grip on a DSLR.

[Greg Beetham]

If Sony can have an empty prosumer APS-C space for two years after they discontinued the A700 it would be hard to believe they would be in a big hurry to replace the replacement, I could believe discontinue it without replacing it, that would fit.
I guess it depends what their next move might be, they might think getting into the D600 market segment might be a good idea instead of more APS-C upmarket cams, but that would have the potential to attack the sales of the A99 so maybe that’s doubtful, besides Nikon have already been there done that so unless they can economically make a cheaper D600 in order to get it too sell, doing that might not be cost effective unless they can sell lots of them, I think they would have to get it on the shelf for between $1800 and $1900 body only.
People who have predominantly APS-C lenses might still buy it anyway, you don’t have to always use it as a FF camera but the capability is there if you want a FF occasionally.
Who knows there could actually be a good market for a cheaper less featured FF A-mount…as long as it’s reliable, (I think people are getting a bit cheesed at being stiffed with unreliable cameras and bad QC, and I’m not aiming just at Sony either) and also how desirable it is would depend on what features they leave in and what they leave out.
But really SLT’s have a problem or two compared to DSLR’s that need sorting (flash system and responsiveness) and they should sort them before releasing another one.
Greg
Ps Sheesh Atgets, fetlocks already? That’s a bit harsh, I would consider maybe horseradish perhaps.

[agorabasta]

I think Greg is quite right.

The best APS SLT would be an a99 with a 40+ Mp sensor. As it is now, the APS pixelcount is too low.
Otherwise, an EVF body may have a sensor as oversized as can be, the best would be to cover all that the mount throat may let in.

So it would make more sense to develop new SLT's with FF sensors only, hybrid NEX/SLT's chould be made also with FF only, and then the pure NEX's may stay APSC or some may get an oversized sensor.

[bfitzgerald]

Few need 40mp I got a nice 16x12" off my Km5d the other day sure I'd get a better one off a higher mp sensor but seriously folks if you're chasing 300dpi for massive prints then I'd say you will never be satisfied.
Nikon are chasing pixels so now they've got 24mp across the range on APS-C what next?

Back to Sony, what does "substantial improvements" mean?
It's so vague as to be meaningless

What usually happens with new models (across various makers)
More pixels on sensor (bar Canon right now)
More AF points/cross sensors
Maybe more fps or better buffer
Usually a few tweaks such as better video or a few minor things
Maybe a better LCD etc etc
Minor re-design but not much maybe move the odd button

None of that is really "substantial"
So if Sony are holding out to go to a 30mp + sensor on APS-C or some other idea then frankly I think that's wasting their time.
All those D7100's that are selling, and soon to arrive 70/7d's and who's going to buy an A77? Bar a few A mount users it's not up the top of most people's list

It's 2013, the words substantial don't really apply any more, the only thing that would interest me is a new non bayer sensor with awesome low light ability.

[agorabasta]

Barry, that 40Mp FF sensor would make mere 18Mp in APS crop. That's OK, but to get rid of LPF without any possible problems it would take about 40Mp in APS crop and 90Mp in FF. But those sensels may well be binned on the sensor to some more workable lower resolution.

[bfitzgerald]

I'd imagine 90mp raw files working ok on a 12 core 32Gb PC with a 10Tb HDD!
I can get the crop thing for wildlife shooters, but for everyone else I think we've not really much to grumble about resolution wise.

And I'm not sure how useful it would be to start going above 24mp on APS-C I fear compact camera levels of density in the future. Only Canon have so far offered their smaller raw sizes, in a lot of cases I simply don't need that much resolution. I hope other makers start to offer smaller raw sizes, either that or we'll be running out of storage in the future.

[alphaomega]

Barry Fitzgerald stated

It's 2013, the words substantial don't really apply any more, the only thing that would interest me is a new non bayer sensor with awesome low light ability.

Maybe that is what Sony are looking at if there is anything real behind this SAR rumour
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/nex-7n-m ... this-year/

In short, in 2014 we will have new A-mount FF cameras, new NEX-FF cameras using new viewfinder and new sensor tech. I know it’s a long time to go but I hope to get some info about the new roadmap soon. I may can entertain you a bit while you are waiting for the big 2014 news

By the way, I don’t know what the new sensor tech could be. But I saw plenty of patents with “Foveon alike” sensors (See Sigma DP series). That would mean, true 100% color info for every single pixel, no AA filter and bigger pixels (or more Megapixels). Yep, that would be a hell of a sensor!

There has been some Sony sensor patents listed at various times. Sony's new CEO is perhaps noting that only through a technological lead can they compete with CAN/NIK in the DSLR/SLT segment of the market and the two key points are a better EVF that equals OVF in daylight and beats the OVF in low light combined with a new sensor that provides what Barry Fitzgerald is looking for and both improvements covered by patents. If Sony could develop such a sensor and make it in pixel densities that would eat into the MF sector they might have a market with a higher profit level and, therefore, not a requirement for mega numbers in sales.

[bfitzgerald]

Sensor is the only think I can think of that "might" have decent improvements and the tech IMO points towards something other than bayer for sensors. We're quite early in digital being honest and I can see different sensor designs coming to light and that's where the tech part comes in.

Bar that I'm struggling to think of much else. They might do something more with phase detect AF, but I don't expect a major breakthrough mostly refinements. Even Nikon will run out of AF points eventually.

Not really about pleasing me. I still have quite mixed views on SLT and still feel that it's a series of pros and cons with that concept. It is possible Sony might develop sensors that could wipe out the disadvantage of the SLT design, but surely they would want to sell them to other makers? I might be ok paying the asking price for an A57 (which isn't that much) but I would certainly not lay down the £2100 odd they are asking for the A99 even if I were given the funds to do that! I've said SLT can make progress only if there is a price advantage to that v normal DSLR's. If not then Sony might as well start making DSLR's again, because it's not hurting the top 2 makers one bit.

SAR is saying that there is a new FF SLT for next year..bar 36mp (D800 already got there) or a new type of sensor we shall have to wait and see. I don't think 2013 is going to be a bumper year for Sony, everything seems to be going into NEX..a product I personally have not that much interest in.

I consider 2 years or so to be about right for most model updates. I've no idea why Sony decided to bring the A58 to the market, a very very odd move. A57 seemed to be doing "ok" in that segment, replacing it with a cut down model isn't exactly going to boost sales much. It might even be that the A77 will be around for quite some time, like the A700 and eventually get discontinued and then we have the same A700 scenario all over again. I would have thought Sony would have learnt that lesson.

[Dusty]

... I would have thought Sony would have learnt that lesson.

The one lesson we should all learn is that Sony never learns it's lessons!

Dusty

[alphaomega]

Barry Fitzgerald pondered

I consider 2 years or so to be about right for most model updates. I've no idea why Sony decided to bring the A58 to the market, a very very odd move. A57 seemed to be doing "ok" in that segment, replacing it with a cut down model isn't exactly going to boost sales much.

Perhaps the new Sony CEO had the same thought and then decreed longer intervals between new releases and major improvements to interest buyers.

[bfitzgerald]

Well the new CEO seems to be pushing buttons on a lot of NEX activity..and putting back developments on A mount (lenses and bodies)
I'd be quite sure that the CEO is as clueless about the photographic market as some of the previous people in charge of the imaging division.

If it's really Sony's plan to just have the A58 (as SAR suggest) as the only new A mount body, they'll get wiped out this year big time.
Don't get me wrong some makers are just as dumb at times, I've no idea why Canon bothered with the EOS 700d wow a full rotating mode dial (ooooh!) and very little else. That is quite a pointless release if there ever was one, but I'm pretty sure A77 users could thump out a list of improvements on that model that are worthwhile.

[bfitzgerald]

Interesting post on SAR...

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-ther ... s-anymore/

If correct I assume this is why there won't be any more SLT models this year.. No shocks there (I think we knew it was a transition technology)
On the other hand it leaves a FF SLT out there (wonder how that will pan out if they do a non SLR FF next year)

And the big question is can they nail good, fast, accurate AF that can track action without a mirror?