The a mount is going mirrorless according to SAR

[Greg Beetham]

Greg

I was thinking more on the lines of the NX-20 which has all the attributes I mentioned with the handling and body ergonomics of a DSLR, it ticks all my boxes.
Pete

Hmm Samsung, I’m not sure on the quality and reliability aspect of their gear, the NX-20 looks cheap to my eye http://3.static.img-dpreview.com/files/ ... jpg?v=2174 I don’t know what you think of the appearance but I’m slightly underwhelmed.
Also there is the question of lenses http://www.samsung.com/us/photography/d ... ccessories there doesn’t seem to be anything longer than 200mm, you would need at least to have a 300 in the range one would think, and many would expect a 400 as well.
I had a quick look at a NX 50-200 review http://www.photoreview.com.au/reviews/l ... d-ois-lens and they mentioned that the CDAF started hunting as soon as contrast was low and had to switch to MF, I don’t know what EV level they were talking about though.
Greg

[classiccameras]

Hi Greg
Generally across most review sites its seems to get good reviews.

Yes, its lop sided and a bit unconventional and not the nicest camera to look at, but most reviews said it was a pleasure to hold and use with contols in places that other camera manufacturers should take note of.

I have not heard of reliability problems, my friend has a NX11 and he gets out standing pictures with no problems reported over several years. Samsung lenses are getting better reviews than some CSC lenses. However, I guess there are some problems with some lenses as you pointed out, but then I could name one or two Canikon lenses that are a bit 'iffy'.
I just used the NX20 as a model that that could be an example of where Sony might go in the future.

[classiccameras]

Barry
The buying public are a conservative lot and easily swayed by photo mag/internet advertising. Most sites are Canikon dominated which does rub off on the camera buying public. Agreed, Sony have never really listened to the camera enthusiast and in a way they have been their own worst enemy for years.
Now they are reaping the negative benefits of that.

We have all been very critical including myself of the SLT system as have some review sites. Their biggest moan being not all the light reaches the sensor so it must have a lower IQ than its rivals, B-----s. Well, I have never found my A37 to have poor IQ, it produces just as nice a pictures as my Nikon D5100 [same sensor]. I like the EVF and have no problem with it and in some ways its more useful than a OVF.
Its how Sony dealt with the 1/3 stop less light on the sensor. they just compensated for it in the software. What's wrong with that.
It made virtually no difference to IQ or performance. In fact it was more acedemic than out of camera reality.
If Sony decide to continue with the SLT system, I will still remain a fan for many other reasons. If they do go stupid and produce some thing I don't like then its pastures new as I said before.

[Atgets_Apprentice]

I'm just not seeing customer demand for EVF's with a mirror or not, certainly not from DSLR users. Vast majority I talk to have little interest in such a product. Therefore I have to conclude Sony are not meeting the needs of most potential users or buyers.
I think it's a mistake for any company to try to make a product range that isn't meeting the needs of most users.
I saw a comment on DPR about the OVF being obsolete, but the buying public don't agree.

You have to make what people want it's as simple as that. Despite being strongly anti EVF from day one I've given it a shot, but my overall thoughts are that I sill on balance prefer an optical viewfinder, sure I can use the EVF it has some good points but it's simply not as good taken as a whole. I think most feel the same way.

That comment on DPR is just crazy. If OVF was obsolete, Nikon, Canon, & Pentax wouldn't be selling cameras, and Sony would be kings of the castle, none of which is the case.

Sony, with many of the other technologies they have in their cameras, would be competing more closely with the big two, were they to have them incorporated in an OVF body.

[bfitzgerald]

I know some really like the EVF aspect and that's great, but obsolete means: no longer in use or no longer useful
Clearly that's not an appropriate use of the word.

Until I see Canikon starting to make EVF cameras and people buying them just as happily I have to stick to me original comments.
I would add I've never had a problem with Sony doing the SLT experiment, but it is a huge mistake IMO to not offer at least one decent maybe 6 series type body with a pentaprism VF, dual control dials and decent overall spec to meet the needs of people who want this.

The worst part is you might actually be willing to give SLT a shot if the price was a bit more yes please. The A99 out 8 months or so and they're still trying to get £2000 body only for it! Yet currently a cashback on the D600 bags one for £1300 odd. People aren't going to pay £700 extra for a FF SLT camera end of story, we know that but Sony don't seem to have worked it out!

Worse if this end of SLT stuff is correct you'll be taking a fairly hefty bath on the A99 resale price too later on. So Sony's winning strategy is to sell an overpriced FF body in small quantities, an entry level SLT model that's so corner cut few have any interest in it, and 2 older models that might shift a bit (just) with price cuts (A65/77) Mix in half the bodies have a different hot shoe, surely to confuse any buyers even more. I'm just not seeing the winning strategy here.

Why can't we just have a decent mid range DSLR like above. I'd be very interested in such a model.
Even with a no mirror range next year, I can't really see how Sony are going to make that have a big impact on the market. It's a bit sad that many A mount users are forced to hit ebay looking for half decent deals on older OVF models. 12 months is a long time in this game, and Sony look like they are behind the other makers who are updating their range at various price points.

[classiccameras]

Its a sure bet that the A58 is a budget camera to keep the brand ticking over in sales until the rumoured mirrorless? models come out next year.
The A99 is not selling very well at the current price and I wouldn't mind betting it won't have a long availability span.
I don't think Sony will return to OVF as there has been to much money involved in EVF and future technology in that area.

Now that Sony are the major share holder in Olympus, there could well be some technology sharing, and its by no means an accident that Olympus chose Sony sensors for their latest 16mp cameras.

[bfitzgerald]

Actually the A58 is a perfect example of how Sony can make fairly big blunders in their model line up. It's tanked sales wise brand new model and it didn't even make the top 100 list on Amazon uk. It's not even grabbing attention from Sony users let alone first time buyers. The A58 is the A230 of the SLT world stripped to the bone, takes out most of what you wanted/liked in the previous model. It might shift a bit if they price it at a stupidly low level, personally I'd ignore it unless it breaks price records like a £199 body only option.

Ticking over is what Sony can't afford to do right now.I suspect they will keep the A65/77 around that's why the A58 is stripped down so much so as to not hurt sales on the higher models. They'll hope 24mp will be "ok" in the market, and pray Canon misfire on the 60d/7d updates

Overall point is bar no mirror what will we get next year? Another FF A mount body that's probably going to be priced at £2000+ (again missing the main FF push) and a bunch of APS-C ones which will again be priced at levels that only make folks want to buy other makers bodies. Nothing will really change, until Sony work out they're the smaller player and need to out-price rivals to gain market share. I can't see what else could excite people unless they get shot of the mechanical shutter too, they've done GPS, maybe wifi..what else? Cat smile shutters are not going to cut it!

[classiccameras]

Although we don't know what's in store from Sony, at present it looks pretty bleak with no real hope even on the horizon and I take most rumours with a pinch of salt.
Thank goodness I have not invested huge amounts in A mount lenses and I only have the A37.

[Greg Beetham]

According to a thread at dpr sales of MILC cameras have suffered a big decline last year (P&S cameras are a basket case, Olympus is abandoning the segment, apparently) and the only segment that showed increased sales was the DSLR category, especially for Canon.

If Sony do abandon DSLT’s like they abandoned DSLR’s and morph the A-mount into a look alike MILC mount while that segment is in decline they must know something that no one else knows or have something so revolutionary in the pipeline they are going to take everyone else to the cleaners, let’s hope they don’t take existing A-mount users to the cleaners as well.

If Sony attacks the half alive MILC segment on two fronts and takes poor retrospective system compatibility and performance for the A-mount into the arena while having no DSLR model I’ll think they must have finally completely lost their marbles.
So really I don’t have a lot of faith in the rumour, it’s just too weird even for a Sony rumour.
Greg

[alphaomega]

There is no doubt that Sony are in a spot of bother over their various strategies over A mount. They have tried various steps ending with SLT and nothing has worked. They have probably ended up with causing a lot of confusion and despair in some. I think that is why the top man has taken a deep breath and demanded a change in approach. Time will show if they can come up with something that can compete. Whatever new sensor Sony can develop will also be sold to whoever will pay the money so they need to look in other areas. they need to maintain lens to sensor distance so there is a limit to how small they can make the new offering. If it is going the way SAR's rumour indicates I would have thought that a mirrorless camera with a fast Phase/Contrast detect system EVF and maybe electronic shutter. Should be possible to produce without costing the earth due to elimination of mechanical parts. Probably Sony will produce one and grossly overprice rather than trying to build market share.

[classiccameras]

Just on the positive side for the SLT system. Sony have had more models in the SLT range gain more awards, 5 stars and gold stars from many review sites than Canikon or Pentax have.

[Atgets_Apprentice]

Just on the positive side for the SLT system. Sony have had more models in the SLT range gain more awards, 5 stars and gold stars from many review sites than Canikon or Pentax have.

I'm looking forward to Tuesday, to see what AP has to say about the a58. My money is on a panning.

[bfitzgerald]

Awards don't always equal great sales or a thriving camera company. Minolta won a fair few awards too and in many cases highly praised models (film 7/9 one example)
The A58 has not had a great review from any site, but then we expected that as it's just not that interesting to most folks.
One problem Sony have had over the years is probably too many models and not enough variation between them. I think for APS-C 3 is just fine (entry/mid/semi pro) but for FF I think they will have to embrace a 2 model strategy to get anywhere.

The ILC market has declined probably for the same reason the camera market will decline over the next few years too. Too many makers, too many products, and people probably don't update as much as they used to. Over-saturation in short. Economic problems in various regions (Europe one example) folks have less cash to spend so less camera sales.

[bakubo]

Just on the positive side for the SLT system. Sony have had more models in the SLT range gain more awards, 5 stars and gold stars from many review sites than Canikon or Pentax have.

The problem with awards and reviews is that they so, so, so often miss problems that users discover in the first day or two after buying or defects that crop up later. Sometimes the problem is so quickly discovered and so obvious you have to wonder how multiple reviewers missed it or why they failed to mention it. This has happened over and over with various cameras across all brands.

For me, quality (meaning free of defects) is probably #1. Most of the other stuff, such as features, performance, IQ, etc. I can discover by reading various reviews, but I hate it when a company sells me a defective product because of a defective design, bad parts, or bad manufacturing. Especially, when they then won't or can't fix it.

[bfitzgerald]

QC seems way down the list of most makers having had 3 bad experiences out of the major makers I can't really come to any other conclusion. Though I still rate Pentax as the biggest let down of all, they failed to even engage with a paying customer effectively ignoring even written letters. That is frankly unforgivable, I was fortunate that the company admitted a fault and that secured a refund from the retailer. Nikon's QC is just a lousy with a nice product/s plagued by frankly comical levels of AF accuracy

With Sony they just don't do adequate field testing, that is obvious from my use of their products. I spotted the sensor flaw..how come Sony didn't? On the other things like handling quirks and those damn annoying nag screens that's just basic common sense. Until Sony work out that average DSLR buyer is not cybershot customer then things won't really change. It's a big fail for many makers here these products are basically disposable ones IMO that is how they view them.