Mirrorless rumours

[bfitzgerald]

Not impressed in what way? The 35mm f1.4 looks a bit edgy at times in the OOF areas, 18-55mm looks ok to me (and a bit faster) I don't really understand the 18mm f2 myself. 60mm macro looks decent but the hood is way too big. 14mm prime looks good to me. Bar the decision to use focus by wire (never understood the reason for this) they don't look that bad to me optically.

I like the concept of the X system it's more interesting to me than NEX is, now Fuji tend to wander off and not quite nail things granted. At least they're trying something a bit different. How the X range expands over time will remain to be seen. I wouldn't dump my A mount stuff for them, but I can see the appeal for some types of shooters. All things being equal though with a decent price cut I might consider the X100s as a stand alone compliment to A mount.

[classiccameras]

2 things excell about Sony and Fuji and that is their colour reproduction.
It was this that persuaded me to buy the A37 and the X10 about a year earlier.

I'm also impressed in how the Fuji X processing and functions work. The lenses got for most part good reports. The one thing that puzzled me was the newer X20 got poorer marks by several review sites for general image quality than the X10. Over the years I have found this to be the case with several brands, quite often the first production were excellent, but subsequent models were often not as good in the IQ department.
I'm very happy with my A37 and now the later A57, they both in my view produce nicer more pleasing images than my Nikon D5100 [Nikon seem incapable of getting the colour balance or temp. right, especially greens], and quite superior to the old Panny G3 I once had. I have got used to the EVF and that as well is much easier to read than my old G3. I won't jump ship and will wait and see what future A mount models will be and of course cost.

As one person said on the Olympus site forum about the 4thirds system that Olympus dropped in favour of M4thirds. It doesn't mean that all your 4thirds gear is going to suddenly stop working because its now no longer made. Sadly though there are a few people who wouldn't be seen dead with gear from a dropped line.

[Greg Beetham]

The X-Pro1 looks interesting but it’s got a few quirks and bugs, like the focus ring in MF on the lenses that don’t have a stop at either end while revolving the collar (many turns) but the lens stops focusing anyway if you go past the focus communication area (not marked) and you have ‘find’ that zone again where it will start focusing again…what’s the deal with that?

Also there is almost nowhere to grip the lenses to remove and replace them, most of the barrel is covered by both the f-stop ring and the fully endlessly revolving focus collar thus apparently you end up moving the f-stop ring to the end of travel to move the lens in a particular direction.
The AF follow focus also apparently does not perform very well at all on a moving object, and focus is not wonderful (accuracy) in dim-ish light while MF focus magnification does some weird stuff as well.

And what’s with the strange lens hoods? As dpr said you will have trouble manipulating a Polarizer filter while those are mounted on the lens.
Then there is the complex algorithm needed to work with that sensor which also apparently means there is not a lot of third party support for it.
Also what multitude of sins are being ‘corrected’ by those firmware embedded distortion corrections.

I’m not sure about the X-Pro1 but the X100s has no RAW file in ISO 100, jpeg yes RAW no, how would that be allowed to happen?
Baz I think it would be better to wait for X-Pro2 or even 3.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Fuji are notorious for quirks, though they do seem to iron them out at a later date. I like their tonality and their ideas, even if they don't always nail it as they should. There are a few odd things such as the hoods and lens ergonomics, but users seem to rave about them. I suppose we've heard about the odd Canon FF user who sold off all their bodies and L lenses, and bought an OM-D and never looked back or other ILC system

On the Fuji side I think the X20 is the closest yet to what I might be looking for to take on those don't want to bring a DSLR and lenses day trip out. The X100s is really a luxury type purchase for a later date (with a hefty price cut), but could be useful as a stealthy candid type camera at weddings and other events. Trouble is you'll never really get all you want, not sure why makers can't nail this all down with ease. On the Sony side the bring out a nice IQ compact with a bigger 1" sensor, and yet omit putting a VF on it, and trapped it in a cybershot design body! What a shame but that's what you get at times.

As for NEX I'm not seeing anything I like, not that I want another system. To further complicate the premium compact idea, you get some silly low blow out deal on a micro 4/3 camera or Samsung NX for a complete song and wonder if you might be better off getting that big sensor feeling for not a lot. Interesting times indeed, but with hefty sales drops in compacts, and ILC's something has to give somewhere. You don't dump 30-50% drops in sales and get away with it.

I'd actually like to see more larger sensor compacts around, they've milked the pin head lousy IQ big zoom cart until it's empty. Makers will have to respond with something if they're to survive. At least Fuji got the OVF part of these cameras, something that escaped all the other makers. I think Canon have misfired on their EOS-M range, they could have cleaned up with a G type couple of bodies, nail the AF and folks would buy them hand over fist and then some more.

[classiccameras]

I'm the same, if I don't want to lug the 'Kit' around on a day out, I always take the Fuji X10 as I know it will deliver good pics without much fuss.

I still think the latest Pentax DSLR's are a viable alternative to Sony SLT and Canikon.
There are yet more good things to come from Fuji, that I am sure of, especially the rumoured X-S2.
I would rather stay with Fuji Bridge cameras for their convenience rather than go for one of their X system cameras.

[Greg Beetham]

I just don’t understand camera manufacturers at the moment, you’d think with the industry under pressure to maintain sales they’d really concentrate on crossing every t and dotting every i.
But instead some of the products they turn out seem to get more slipshod as time goes on instead of better, it’s like watching lemmings migrate, not that I’ve ever seen lemmings migrate of course but if I did that’s what they would remind me of, some camera models and designs are almost lemons as they come off the assembly line…weird.
Most of them do it in some form or other, Fuji with the strange lens design setup that you could say is a flop, (how did nobody spot that?), Sony releasing unfinished cameras sometimes, Nikon doing half-baked QC lately with important models, and Pentax doing some half-baked QC with some models as well as just straight up weird chit that was never going to fly even on the drawing board…you could write a book.
Greg

[classiccameras]

As I said earlier, as new models come out they get worse rather than better, well they do in a lot of cases. It must surely be for cost cutting reasons and I think the A58 is prime example. The Nikon D3200 is another good example.

As you have probably guessed, I have a soft spot for Pentax faults and all.
It seems just now that Canon are not 'yet' on the downward spiral as each new model is generally an improvement on the last if not by much but done I suspect in a rather feeble way to keep Canon users on board as well as recruiting new ones.
I'm not sure how close to perfect some cameras are, probably none, but some do get ahead of the others, surely Canon must be in the top 3.

[Mike-Photos]

On the Fuji side I think the X20 is the closest yet to what I might be looking for to take on those don't want to bring a DSLR and lenses day trip out. The X100s is really a luxury type purchase for a later date (with a hefty price cut), but could be useful as a stealthy candid type camera at weddings and other events. Trouble is you'll never really get all you want, not sure why makers can't nail this all down with ease. On the Sony side the bring out a nice IQ compact with a bigger 1" sensor, and yet omit putting a VF on it, and trapped it in a cybershot design body! What a shame but that's what you get at times.

Hi Barry
I have the X20 and the XE1. I also have a Novoflex A-Mount to Fuji adapter, and I can use all my A-Mount lenses on the Fuji in manual focus mode. Here's one with the CZ135mm:
http://mikekatz.smugmug.com/Mikes-Photo ... 3&lb=1&s=A
You can zoom in while manually focusing, as you can with the A99, and it's a breeze. I also have some macros in that gallery with the Sony 100mm macro. The Fuji 60mm macro works just as well although it's 1:2 as opposed to 1:1.
The gallery also has X20 photos, and I think you's be hard-pressed to distinguish A99/XE1/X20 without the EXIF.
I think Fuji have made some mistakes, who's perfect? But they seem to listen and add in features that users ask for. The focusing speed will improve, but really, it's adequate.
In fact, I just sold my A99 and 70-400 G, which I don't see myself attaching to the tiny Fuji body. I've also sold some lenses and am keeping others, either to use on the Fuji or on a future uber-camera that Sony may or may not be announcing.
The mentioned 18-55 "kit" lens is not a kit lens at all, and the 55-200 that has just started shipping is amazing. There's a 10-20mm F4 coming by the end of the year, and various other primes and CZ lenses.
What attracted me to Fuji as opposed to NEX was that it's not a consumer range system aimed at P&S shooters who want a bit more. It's a "real" system, with an APS-C sensor, a proprietary sensor that really performs, and really good lenses.

[bfitzgerald]

Hi Mike thanks for the information useful to see. I agree about the sensor have to say I'm impressed with it esp for low light work, looks excellent to me. One for later on I think maybe Fuji can iron some of the quirks out, and beef up the range a bit. I'm not considering dumping A mount just yet!

On the A58, having had a play with one..and again today. I see one sitting in my local PC world branch, looking all lonely as the sole Alpha model they stock. Surrounded by large numbers of Canon and Nikon bodies.
As soon as you pick it up it's clear Sony have tried to save every penny possible on this body. not just the plastic mount either. The body plastic feels smooth and cheap, with thinner plastics used all around, less dense than the A57 body no question. Sony even went as far as dumping the rubber thumb rest and instead it's just part of the body moulding, ie plastic with a texture to it (feels nasty). The rear LCD whilst it's not bad, pales badly next to the A57/65's much higher res offering. It's not a good feel in the hands, probably won't fall apart or anything like that, but I can't see it going down very well sales wise.

Any camera can sell if it's cheap enough, and the A58 might have some luck if it hits record breaking low price points (sure feels cheap in the hand) Hey any camera can take nice shots, but this conflicts with that Sony guy I spoke to. He said Sony did not make "cheap products" The A58 feels as cheap as they get, even the Canon EOS1100d (another notoriously cheap offering) feels like a step up! Sure for £199 I'd buy one for a back up don't care if it gets crushed body (well maybe that is), but the asking price right now is simply too high and not realistic. Sony really messed up on this one, of all the models to drop/release in 2013, they picked the wrong one big time.

[David Kilpatrick]

You could have been reading the review I'm writing, Barry, except that for £291 including lens, plus VAT (£350 total) the A58 is astoundingly cheap and that's what I paid last week for UK stock from a UK dealer.

It is both an advanced and perfectly horrible camera - they cut the costs so much that they even printed fewer little stickers and swingtags to go on it, missed off the hot shot cover, and made the body out of recycled pantyhose. Or something.

David

[bfitzgerald]

David the A200 was £299 at one point, so I would consider the A58 to be only worth looking at when it gets to a £250 or lower level. That's my thoughts having handled one, if they can't even put a metal mount or rubber thumb pad on there, and take the IR remote and normal wired remote out it's not worth much to me. Yes it's a camera and can take photos, but it's seriously cut down in a lot of ways build wise, and it's got the buffer size of my Km5d which is a 2005 model!

When I think about it, the Km5d has super build really for that price point very solid feeling body with good quality dense plastics, I paid £399 for mine I think way back in 2006. It's all relative really, if the A58 is made to be cheap, it has to be really cheap to be worth looking at.

Sony probably freaked out with the new hot shoe being metal, so they had to get rid of other metal parts to compensate

[classiccameras]

Read 4thirds rumours site, Olympus to share 5 axis IS with Sony along with other technologies including sensor technology and new lenses.

[Birma]

Very interesting review as always DK. Even more interesting though was the Frank Doorhof article that the review led me on to via the main site. Lots to think about and experiment with there.

I was interested to see that the A58 was going to replace a A350. I had been looking at these on eBay recently. Like all of the old Alphas they seem to go for the £100-200 range. I am toying with the idea of getting an IR conversion done and, while I have A100 and A700 candidate bodies, I think that I might want Live View.

[bfitzgerald]

Interesting A58 review. Bit concerned about the AF comments though. The new kit has the same metal front ring on the 18-135mm and some other newer lenses, but the optics looks the same to me, ie it's not really cutting it for this resolution just a starter lens. DK's samples show that too, though he might have a more ropey copy they do vary on these kit lenses.

I'd recommend anyone thinking about this model try one in the hand, you just want to put it down asap! That's how I felt, disappointing effort from Sony the 20mp sensor would be better served in a more mid level body.

[classiccameras]

Check out the new Pentax K500 and K50, they may be just what you are looking for. These 2 new cameras are the first DSLR's to come from the newly formed Ricoh/Pentax imaging.