Going backwards - A580

[Dr. Harout]

You can indeed use DRO to lift the shadows considerably. One caveat though: The effect is only shown while pressing the DOF-Preview button!

AFAIK, you have to activate "Setting effect" that should be turned to on.

[bfitzgerald]

Been trying the DRO settings and it's correct that it doesn't show unless you have the DOF preview set to shot result preview. It does lift the shadows quite a lot actually, just a shame it's not going to be practical for everyday use. Strange Sony don't allow you to calibrate the display with something like this where you can lift the shadow areas.

I'll experiment with the lowered contrast settings in harsh light to see if it's workable. I'm not sure it's going to give me OVF clarity though.

[classiccameras]

I know you are not a big Jpeg fan or at least Sony Jpegs. However, I am, so would you recommend toning down the over vivid picture even in default on my A57/37 by using Portrait and -1 contrast and leaing sharpening to 0.
As I said earlier, I think I'm close to the sweet spot, but its just a matter of fine tuning now.
Pete

[bakubo]

Barry, try what Doc suggested. It doesn't make sense that your A57 EVF displays the other jpeg settings, but not DRO. Then again we are talking about Sony.

[bfitzgerald]

I tried it again and setting effect is on for the viewfinder, and it's not showing the effects of DRO at all (unless you press the DOF preview when set to shot preview)
Camera set to raw or jpeg makes no difference to it. If you change the contrast/saturation etc it does make a difference.

DRO def does not. Maybe other models (A77) do things differently I've not had much time with that model to know

[Neonsquare]

Believe me - the DRO-Effect is only shown using DOF Preview (and as Barry correctly said only when set to shot preview). At least this is the behaviour on any SLT! Perhaps computing DRO (Apical?) consumes to much power to be always on.

I really would like the "setting effects off" option to raise shadows like DRO. I even would like lowering the highs so doing some kind of tone mapping. To me - this options purpose should be to get the best possible sight on the scenery by not being bound to simulating the result. I don't think the possibilities of this idea are already recognized by Sonys designers.

[bakubo]

That is really unfortunate about the Sony behavior. The Olympus EM-5 can show the effect of all the jpeg settings in the EVF (at least all that I have tried). Without the DRO equivalent showing in the EM-5 EVF then I would be much less satisfied with the EVF. Having DRO+, minimum contrast, and portrait mode really helps a whole lot in contrasty situations.

[classiccameras]

I have noticed in bright contrasty conditions with strong sun light, the A37 eye start refresh on the EVF is slow. On indoor shots its quicker. Are there any settings I can alter or is that how it is. It was annoying to the point yesterday where I wished I had an OVF camera.

[Neonsquare]

That is really unfortunate about the Sony behavior. The Olympus EM-5 can show the effect of all the jpeg settings in the EVF (at least all that I have tried). Without the DRO equivalent showing in the EM-5 EVF then I would be much less satisfied with the EVF. Having DRO+, minimum contrast, and portrait mode really helps a whole lot in contrasty situations.

I don't know the Olympus EM-5 an therefore cannot say if DRO Level 5 using an A77 is comparable to the jpeg settings of this Olympus. DRO Level 5 does indeed push the shadows significantly - this is a huge difference to what is possible with the contrast settings. I could live with a toggle option configurable to some key (like the ?-Key ) which would activate or deactivate this DRO Level 5 effect. I would also like it to stabilize the view using SSS if toggled on. There are alot of things Sony (and other vendors too) could do better with EVF-Cameras.

[bakubo]

I don't know the Olympus EM-5 an therefore cannot say if DRO Level 5 using an A77 is comparable to the jpeg settings of this Olympus. DRO Level 5 does indeed push the shadows significantly - this is a huge difference to what is possible with the contrast settings. I could live with a toggle option configurable to some key (like the ?-Key ) which would activate or deactivate this DRO Level 5 effect. I would also like it to stabilize the view using SSS if toggled on. There are alot of things Sony (and other vendors too) could do better with EVF-Cameras.

It sure helps the EVF image in contrasty light.

I am surprised to hear that Sony doesn't have a stabilized EVF view. What is the reason for that? The E-M5 has a configuration option for stabilized or not stabilized view. I use the stabilized option and it works great.

[Heidfirst]

I am surprised to hear that Sony doesn't have a stabilized EVF view. What is the reason for that? The E-M5 has a configuration option for stabilized or not stabilized view. I use the stabilized option and it works great.

For stills the sensor is only actively stabilised during the exposure hence the vf is not stabilised during normal viewing. Iirc for video (which is stabilised by electronic pixel-shifting) it is.

[Neonsquare]

@bakubo
It actually depends: If you use a lens with stabilisation then the EVF actually is stabilized. While filming the EVF is also stabilized through either in body stabilisation (SSS) on older SLTs or a digital stabilisation using sensor crop (which actually works very very good on video). When shooting stills photos the SSS with the SLTs is not different to any OVF Alpha before: SSS starts to work when pressing the shutter. The first SLTs used SSS while filming but this produced to much heat - which is perhaps is an indicator why it isn't an always on option for liveview.

Since Sony introduced the digital SSS in video I thought it would be a very good option to digitally stabilize the EVF view - at least when using magnification. I could live with some (optional) crop when using longer tele lenses if the result would be a stable view finder.

Perhaps this idea will be not necessary if the rumors about Sony licensing IBIS technology from Olympus comes true. I'd definitely like always on IBIS in LiveView.

[bakubo]

The EM-5 has IBIS like Sony DSLT bodies so my lenses do not have ILIS. As I said, the EM-5 has a stabilized EVF (if you select that option). Very nice for lenses of 200mm+ equivalent.

[bakubo]

This thing about EVFs shows the problem with obsessing about specs and also about depending too much on reviews. The E-M5 EVF can display the results of all the jpeg settings so you can use the DRO+ equivalent and that helps a lot in high contrast situations -- precisely the situation that usually an EVF has so much trouble. Also, the E-M5 EVF is stabilized using the IBIS. Both of these are things that don't show up usually in spec lists and I don't recall seeing either one in a review. I also haven't seen that these things can't be done on Sony DSLT models mentioned before either.

IMO, there isn't much point in worrying about specs and features that you don't use. Who cares if a model has a lower spec or is missing a feature if it is one you aren't going to use? Why worry if your camera or the one you are thinking about buying doesn't WIN in all areas? It just doesn't make sense to me. Since so much doesn't show up in spec list and is missed in reviews then both are just a very general guide.

[Atgets_Apprentice]

IMO, there isn't much point in worrying about specs and features that you don't use. Who cares if a model has a lower spec or is missing a feature if it is one you aren't going to use? Why worry if your camera or the one you are thinking about buying doesn't WIN in all areas? It just doesn't make sense to me. Since so much doesn't show up in spec list and is missed in reviews then both are just a very general guide.

Excellent point about the "win". If there was a perfect camera, there would only be one camera. As this isn't the case, we find the best tool we can for the job, and customise and optimise it for our own needs. I think this is where I am with the a580.

Something we would do well to remember is, that it wasn't that long ago that we didn't have the customisation options, the features, and the flexibility of even an entry level DSLR/SLT, and we still had this stuff called "film".

On the other hand, all the manufacturers should think carefully about the galloping pace of development, and the urges they have to bung any idea in, however half baked, rather than throwing the baby (OVF) out with the bath water.

Just because you CAN do something, Sony, doesn't mean you SHOULD....