Going backwards - A580

[David Kilpatrick]

I'll just update on my position (or our position) on Sony Alpha at present. First of all, I realise I have not used the A77 for six months, but do not want to sell it; I also have not used my A55. For our most recent stock shoot trip (a circuit of the Pyrenees taking in Andorra, a lot of French Midi-Pyrenees and a decent chunk of Spain...) I used A99, mostly because I acquired a Sony 24-105mm which has reversed my unfavourable opinion based on Minolta 24-105mm and a prototype Sony when the A900 was launched. I know this lens had a remarkably short production period and they must vary, but I have one which is very sharp indeed. I have not processed files yet as there is no Adobe profile, so I need to create one.

I've been so impressed by Shirley's A580 that we have exchanged the A58 (which had a special use for a professional friend of mine) for an ex-demo A580. Why two bodies? Why not, it's not made any more and we wanted a backup. Tomorrow I take delivery of am 8-16mm Sigma... fortunately, for exactly the same price as I sold an 8-16mm for. This is mainly to provide a full wide angle ability for the A580 bodies.

Quite a problem for me, when I should be keeping up with new gear, that I find a need to invest in older gear to do what we want/need.

We have not sold the original 70-400mm G. Here's one of Shirley's shots (cropped - these herons keep a hundred or two yards away from humans!) at 400mm a couple of days ago on the 70-400mm.

heronontweed-sk-web.jpg (272.96 KiB) Viewed 8132 times

David

[ianmiddy]

I can quite identify with returning to the A580...recently got an A65 and whilst it's nice to have the extra resolution [to match the 900 on APS-C] for good light work, the 580 16mp sensor still seems [to me] the best Sony have managed so far...so if you can live with the VF...I did wonder about the A57 rather than the 65, but decided to try just one SLT first...and...

...I'm looking at going back further...on the hunt for a cheap A350 [or, failing that, an A300] to replace the one I sold nearly 2 years ago...a model I'm hoping before Sony busted the flash protocol, and on which the Delta Ring Flash will work in LiveView correctly - unfortunately, whilst there are a few of the 10mp bodies around cheap, the 14mp seems to be holding its price more, lol...

Cheers

IDM

[classiccameras]

IDM

look in the LCE used equipment web site, there are loads of used Sony DSLR's I had a 550 which was 14mp and I wish now I haden't sold it.
After Sony took over Minolta and brought out the A100, which was really a 5D with more pixels they seemed to go down hill in the performance stakes as compared to rival makes. The 350 seemed to be the turning point.
David, there are quite a few Minolta 24-105 lenses for sale on the LCE web site which must be saying some thing. Its interesting to hear your remarks about the Sony version which is a improvement but by how much is not that clear. Like wise, Barry found his Sony 16-135 excellent and his real world results were at odds with several review sites that did not rate it highly.
I use a Minolta [rather rare] 24-85 and it is the best lens I have, its razor sharp edge to edge stopped down and gives those lovely Minolta colours. It my general kit and lanscape lens now.

After several years with Sony and other DSLR/SLT cameras, I have come to the conclusion that unless you intend to blow up pictures to bill board size, 16mp is more than enough for stunning results, or as Nikon said only a few years ago, we think some where around 12mp is the ideal number for picture quality/noise ratio.
They had to eat those words more recently because development in the digital world is moving very quickly although I am sceptical as to the direction they are going.

Pete
Some of my best pictures have been with 10-12 and 14mp cameras. I refuse to get involved in the pixel race. If a 6mp camera gave me great pictures, I would be happy.

[ianmiddy]

Hi - yes, I keep a regular eye on LCE - they had a 350 body for £150 a week or so ago, but I hesitated and lost it - snooze, you lose, lol...

They've got some good prices on the 300, but I really liked the output from the 14mp, and it won't be used for any high-iso work - probably just macro with the ringflash.

Cheers

IDM

[Atgets_Apprentice]

It's good to hear continued praise for the a580. Apart from the sensor issue I had after a few months with mine, I have grown to love the camera. I have no issue with the VF, it is something I learn to live with very easily with any SLR/DSLR I have owned.
I would most certainly consider a used or refurbed body in the future, in the event of mine going to the great gadget bag in the sky, rather than go for an SLT, if I was unable to change systems.

It is, IMO, a modern classic.

[classiccameras]

Help guys,

My forum posts have gone into ultra wide land scape and going off edges of page, can any one tell me how to re format the size.

Thanks

Peter

[Greg Beetham]

The layout seems to have taken its cue from DK’s post, this seems to be the only thread affected. It might be because of the image, its 1500 pixels wide, once you drag the edge of explorer wider (if you have the space) on the screen it comes good.
I wonder about the extra edge PHP margins beyond the actual edge border though, why are those necessary? They seem to be just wasted space.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Flown off the side on my browser too!
Regarding the 24-105mm I can assure you having used the Canon L equivalent quite a bit, whilst it has superior build by some margin (suffers from zoom creep) it IMO does not beat up the A mount lens in terms of optics. This is a very popular lens for Canon users, partly as it's a more affordable L lens and the useful range. It is quite astonishing that Sony have neither a 24mm reasonable cost prime, or a zoom starting at 24mm either. Here you only have expensive Zeiss lenses, this will have to change as Sony will need to IMO do an updated 24- something zoom that is good but doesn't cost a fortune.

Having used the 18-135mm quite a bit I can happily recommend it as a standard lens for A mount APS-C users, I've used it for group shots, head shots ie proper assignments and it's delivered very good quality images and is a good choice at a reasonable cost. Add a few fast primes and you have the low light angle covered too.

I am looking at a second body right now to replace/update the still working but somewhat aged 5d's I have. A580's don't seem to be around much on ebay, and I'm certainly not paying the absurd £720+ one german seller is asking for a new one on Amazon UK. They do come around from time to time usually holding a value of £350 odd.

Other than that you have the less appealing A550's and A450's that turn up as well. And of course A700's which are quite good value s/h too.
As for Sony's current offerings the A77 is falling in price, but I can't say it grabs me even though I don't always need high ISO, the GPS and sealing could be useful. It would have to drop down more to tempt me, ditto A65 doesn't give me anything bar the GPS and OLED so not likely to bite on that. FF remains an option with prices dropping on the A850/900 bodies s/h, but if they drop enough to bite is the question.

Tricky right now for A mount users, far from ideal situation really.

[Greg Beetham]

I was interested in an A580 for a while, but someone mentioned it had a delay problem with WL flash too so I sort of lost interest after that. Well that and no mirror lock up rear screen LV with peaking and MF, too me it’s dumb to make such a camera and then not provide that kind of functionality.
Which is nothing outlandish as far as expectations go, just straightforward still camera usage, they already did the hard yards by inventing the LV sensor but couldn’t design the camera function choices properly to go with it.
It still is a decent camera of course, it just doesn’t have the value to me that it could have so I wouldn’t be willing to pay anywhere near as much as they wanted to charge for it.
Greg

[David Kilpatrick]

The delay problem is not with wireless flash, it is with all flash in LV mode. Remember that the camera pre-dates focus peaking (no Sony model at the A580 date has this) but it does have the unique features of a mirror lock up, focus check live view with magnification, and contrast detect AF during video. All this only comes when you use the 'real' LV mode not the Quick Live View with PD AF. It's not that bad.

David

[Greg Beetham]

My objection is that the dang mirror still flips down and up and down again for the shot instead of staying where you put it, or that’s what I’ve been led to believe.
Greg

[bfitzgerald]

Greg the A580 does have MLU, and the DOF preview returned too. It doesn't have P shift though,
As far as I'm aware it has the usual other sensor live view, but also contrast AF live view. I heard that the off sensor contrast AF didn't work with screw drive lenses (someone can correct me if I'm wrong there) So I kinda lost some interest due to that one strange issue.

Heard about the flash delay don't think that ever got looked at, I'm not sure if it's on camera or wireless or both. Users will be able to report better on that one.
On a side note the Metz 50AF-1 has been performing reliably, consistently and accurately on the A57 and it's been fine with the 5d also (fine as in as good as the 5d is with flash which isn't as hit/miss as the 7d but still not ideal) I might add the 58AF-2 later on, I've no interest in Sony flashes as none have an optical slave mode which is stunningly useful.

I've also never overheated or had a Metz shut down, even on a scorching summer day 50/58 units work great. Something I think HVL-F60M users don't have the luxury of.

It's really about finding something which has the least compromises body wise from Sony, they don't exactly have the best record for dealing with problems/bugs. They've so far failed to address the A99 flash problems either, something which is completely unacceptable for a body costing that price.

[Greg Beetham]

The handy feature for macro would have been LV and MF peaking (a bit early for that but where was the follow on model? It might have even been just a matter of a firmware fix) with a mirror lockup that actually remained up during the shutter action.
I’m not talking about the 2sec timer on this camera that had the beginnings of really decent functionality but didn’t quite make it for macro users, or people who were doing set piece shots, stacking etc.
Greg
Ps recently there has been another thread on dpr complaining about the A99 flash situation and the F60 flash and the MIS, it doesn’t seem to be what you would expect from a camera in that league.

[David Kilpatrick]

Greg's correct actually - the self-timer mode is the only lockup function, which is confusing as in 2 sec timer mode you do get a genuine lock-up but in 10 secs you don't, and in Focus Check LV there is a double shutter cocking action which has to involve the mirror. However, if you use 2 sec timer it effectively shuts off LV, and reverts to normal operation, providing a mirror lift function with the view blacked out for 2 secs. Whether it is enough or not.

It is also true that the contrast detect AF does not work with screw drive lenses, only SAM or SSM, exactly as with the LA-EA1 on NEX (in fact it dates from around the same time and the CD technology is probably identical to the NEX-5n).

David

[UrsaMajor]

Hello David,

Sorry to go Off Topic here, but I sent you a PM on 3 July that I think you have missed.

- Tom -