The beginning of the end?

Specifically for the discussion of the A-mount DSLR range
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Atgets_Apprentice
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The beginning of the end?

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

From this week's Amateur Photographer:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/ph ... of-a-mount

I don't believe a word of what Sony has to say.
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classiccameras
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by classiccameras »

I don't get this, if this new 3000 is designed for E mount lenses then is it smaller than the A58 body. Or is it as the picture looks an A Mount body.
Some thing isn't quite right here.
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Greg Beetham
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

I see stated in numerous forums and threads lately (been having a quick snoop here and there) that Minolta abandoned the MD mount and ‘forced’ people to buy A-mount cameras and then replace all their existing lenses with AF versions.
Minolta didn’t ‘abandon’ the MD mount, you could still buy brand new MD mount cameras in 2001 which to my mind doesn’t translate into an abandonment of the mount.
In actual fact it was customers who abandoned the MD mount by buying AF cameras and lenses, (strange behavior really, because with the removal of the f-stop ring on AF lenses they became vastly more proprietary) just like they are currently in a sense abandoning the A-mount by buying E-mount cameras.
You could mount an argument that Sony had partially abandoned the A-mount the moment they stopped making and developing DSLR’s and started making DSLT’s instead.
Sony has not done what Minolta did, which was continue producing an existing line (DSLR’s) thus Sony has presented as being rather directionless and haphazard giving rise to concerns with existing customers about the future stability of the A-mount.
Admittedly E-mount buyers to date have mostly purchased those as second camera handy cams for times and places where they most likely would not have a larger camera present at all.
But what the A3000 does that no previous NEX has is become a potential standalone E-mount replacement for an A-mount DSLR-DSLT camera entirely, provided it delivers the goods with reaction times and accuracy, (and that remains to be seen)
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bakubo
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by bakubo »

They have a first impressions review up already:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-alpha-a3000
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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by Atgets_Apprentice »

Wait until there is a range of E mount SLTs, and watch the A mount disappear like snow off a dyke. It's just the start.
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

Hmm it’s not as bad as I thought, no in body anti shake like someone said it did elsewhere. I suppose it will sell some because of the price, but the EVF and rear screen is low resolution so that will detract, and no AS if you happen to have an A-mount lens or two along with the adaptor is a definite con, also the small NEX battery in a biggish grip is peculiar. It doesn’t even have a separate battery charger in the box with the camera.
I don’t see why it would attract i-phone upgraders, it can’t connect to any service and it’s not even a particularly good camera from what I read in the preview, the only thing really going for it is the price, and it sort of looks like a proper camera.
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

Yes that's the potential Atgets, an a5000 model next and maybe an a7000 after that and maybe it'll be quite a while before we see another A-mount camera, strange though after releasing expensive lenses for the A-mount recently. But then it is Sony after all.
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by classiccameras »

Yes, pictures of the back side do indicate a smaller body, not for me though. Sony seem to be aping Olympus by possibly converting to E mount like Olympus did for M/4/3 and then said there it is, you will now have to use an adaptor. for the old 4/3 and A Mount lenses. Charming.

Don't forget the joint research and development going on between Olympus and Sony, and I wouldn't mind betting there is some skullduggery going on behind lab doors. It begs the question is there any cross over technology between the 2 companies. I think it is a band waggon jumping manoeuver by Sony to offer a CSC E mount but with a DSLR shape body which is a popular conception.
Canon looks ever more enticing.
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bakubo
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by bakubo »

It's cheap, but it looks very uninteresting compared to a NEX 6 or 7. Too bad that with the bigger body no IBIS was added.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

My take. I question Sony's statement here saying ILC cameras will grow and DSLR's will flatten. In the current "global recession" (call it what you want) Both have actually nose dived sales wise.
The difference is DSLR's have declined less than ILC's. The overall state of the ILC market is bad, it's completely fallen apart and has low adoption rates outside of Asia. I don't see a sudden boom in either market being honest, but I think DSLR's will be ok longer term as that's where people seem to sink the cash (at least some do)

Couple of points on this new model, no IBIS (contrary to initial reports), the same nasty dumbed down NEX controls/handling, a frankly ridiculously weedy onboard flash, no eye sensor, very low res rear lcd (fixed too) I really fail to see this will be anything other than a new A230 for E mount which was pretty much mocked for being dumbed down.

E mounts only appeal is with adaptors to mount giveaway legacy MF lenses. The A mount adaptor is quite pricey (the real AF one) it's just a lot easier and cheaper to pick up A mount stuff, bodies and lenses s/h are plenty around and at good prices. The other odd thing is f4 zooms, which A mount is crying out for badly (though in various focal lengths) Like others I wonder if Sony have split their resources too much between both mounts. And some say something has to give esp with Sony's rather big debt problems lately.

I've no idea what's going on with Sony, but I seriously cannot see this new model even beggining to compete with Canon entry wise. I'm no fan of the budget Canon DSLR range, but the system is huge, it has a massive s/h market and you can get whatever you want for it. NEX's peanuts range both new and s/h surely limits it's appeal. And as I said a few years ago (and seem to have been proved right) that ILC just does not have mainstream enthusiast appeal and won't generate big longer term profits as ILC users just won't be buying the quantity or the quality of optics/accessories to fuel that.

I still stand by that prediction. Yes there is a market for ILC, but it's probably not as big as some anticipated, it's not going to be DSLR big at any point now or in the future. With that in mind there are way too many players in the market and something has to give.
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by KevinBarrett »

bakubo wrote:It's cheap, but it looks very uninteresting compared to a NEX 6 or 7. Too bad that with the bigger body no IBIS was added.
Hear hear!
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by pakodominguez »

Atgets_Apprentice wrote:Wait until there is a range of E mount SLTs, and watch the A mount disappear like snow off a dyke. It's just the start.
What you states doesn't make sens. There won't be a SLT E mount camera. The "future" that they all (Sony, Canon, Nikon...) want is mirrorles with SRL AF performance. They will get there in time. SLT is just a transition.

The A3000 was made in order to compete with the Rebel SL1 -that is a 650 $ body only, while the A3000 with kit lens will cost at introduction 400$
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Greg Beetham
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by Greg Beetham »

I’m sure we know what Atgets meant, (SLR lookalike) in any case calling an E-mount camera an Alpha was very tenuous right from the start, only an A-mount camera specifically qualifies to be called an Alpha so Sony hasn’t been making much sense themselves.
Sony fudged the line with NEX’s because they can use A-mount lenses (after a fashion) with an adaptor but without inbuilt anti-shake, a point they usually forget to mention in dispatches.
Calling DSLT’s Alphas is slightly misleading also, they aren’t actually A-mount cameras either in a clinical sense, not with having a fixed inclined mirror they aren’t.
It’s that sort of fudging and blurring of the distinction in camera lines by Sony that contributes to the impression of directionless-ness that Sony is entirely responsible for, it’s as if they don’t know the difference between an E-mount ILC and an A-mount DSLR themselves.
I don’t think the A-mount is under threat from this A3000 junk, it’s something for Amazon to flog to online buyers who look at the description and might be dazzled by the price.
But it’s worth keeping watch on what Sony gets up to when they dabble with the idea a little more, it will depend on just how well the A3000 thingy sells as to what happens next.
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by alphaomega »

Well, I can't make head or tail of this ILC3000 thingy. Does not make sense to me. It would appear to have a first class 20Mp sensor plonked in a below today's entry level standard camera. Why yet another line? Give me a NEX-6R or whatever designation with that 20Mp sensor and an inproved EVF that will show more detail in the shadows and offer it with a Zeiss 16-70 E mount lens for £1,150 or thereabouts and then I might be interested. Instead they bring out a minor upgrade to the NEX-5 series and maintain the 16Mp sensor. I just could not believe it when I saw the first rumours about that ILC3000. Only product I might be interested in remains the 16-70, but then again I am not dissatisfied with my 16-50 pancake. Hoping for a NEX-6 upgrade with that 20Mp sensor.
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Re: The beginning of the end?

Unread post by Birma »

Whack it in Intelligent Auto Mode and I'm sure it will knock out nice jpgs with real pop and also take great movies. Seems very stripped down to me :( . Another A230 or A450. I'm surprised it is not offered in red :) .

After spending over a week rubbing shoulders with the other tourists in Cornwall I am amazed how many dslr/dslt cameras I have seen. Outnumbering the ultra compacts and super-zooms I would say. I think the "big camera body = good pictures" equation is firmly implanted with the UK public. I've even seen a few D3n bodies toted around as family snappers :shock: . I suppose that if you've got it then its best to use it!
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.
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