A58 has best image quality

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mikeriach
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by mikeriach »

Interesting info there thank you, I have an A580, A77 and A99.
To be fair I consider ISO800 to be "high ISO" for my shooting and try to keep below 400 if possible. I have used higher on the A99 especially when trying to photograph an energetic Springer but usually in the 500-800 range. I rarely if ever shoot higher than that. I found the noise at 800 quite acceptable when dealt with in LR5.

Mike
All my Sony SLT gear gone. Still got my RX100 though.
alphaomega
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by alphaomega »

So the die has been cast. I have just ordered a new body only A58 on ebay for £290 delivered - UK stock. I looked at the most recent SAR rumour
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-a600 ... ming-soon/
A6000 with 24Mp sensor and maybe no stabilisation built in. I don't require 24Mp at present. More expensive to purchase an 18-200mm E zoom with stabilisation to mount on my NEX-6. So I now plan to use this camera solely for video with either my Sony 18-250 or Tamron 18-270 motorized zoom. This should give me excellent video with continuous AF and steady shot stabilisation. The EVF and rear screen quality should be ok for the type of video I wish to take and my new microphone ECM-XYST1M will fit the new universal shoe. As far as I can figure out the A58 at £290 brings a lot of technology and I think I can live with the EVF and rear screen shortcomings for the purpose intended. Time will tell.
So my camere line-up will then be RX100/NEX-5N/NEX-6/A550/A580/A58. Sic cameras and still just two hands and one set of eyes.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

I'm not seeing a bit difference in jpegs on the A58, bar more chroma noise maybe a little better on luminance but it's far from a huge step up.
From time to time I drop into the shop to play with one, and still feel that it doesn't really break any new ground. BTW the shop demo body is looking quite shabby now after a few months of people playing with it.

£300 isn't really a revolution either the A200 was sold for that price years back.
To be even slightly tempted the price is going to have to dive under £250, even then it's going to require an adaptor for flash..and none of my remotes will operate the camera.

It's not about the spec sheet (the buffer is tiny and will annoy some), but the package as a whole. It never really was about the 20mp sensor. I've no problems with the sensor as it is, and yes we can take nice shots with it no problems at all. I really hope Sony discontinue this camera this year and come up with something less cut down

I'm not really considering the A58 as a suitable second body, it pains me to say it but I'd rather pick up an A65 or A77 even with the noisy 24mp sensor.
All Sony had to do was shove the 20mp sensor into the A57 body, with a few tweaks.

They've made the same mistake as the A230 and subsequent models, you never ever make a new model worse only better.
It's also interesting that DPR have not even reviewed this model..wonder why that is?

High ISO to me is 1600 and up. I consider above 6400 to be pretty much useless and only for marketing (at least on crop bodies)
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by mixxer »

alphaomega wrote:So the die has been cast. I have just ordered a new body only A58 on ebay for £290 delivered - UK stock. I looked at the most recent SAR rumour
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-a600 ... ming-soon/
A6000 with 24Mp sensor and maybe no stabilisation built in. I don't require 24Mp at present. More expensive to purchase an 18-200mm E zoom with stabilisation to mount on my NEX-6. So I now plan to use this camera solely for video with either my Sony 18-250 or Tamron 18-270 motorized zoom. This should give me excellent video with continuous AF and steady shot stabilisation. The EVF and rear screen quality should be ok for the type of video I wish to take and my new microphone ECM-XYST1M will fit the new universal shoe. As far as I can figure out the A58 at £290 brings a lot of technology and I think I can live with the EVF and rear screen shortcomings for the purpose intended. Time will tell.
So my camere line-up will then be RX100/NEX-5N/NEX-6/A550/A580/A58. Sic cameras and still just two hands and one set of eyes.
I'm sure you won't regret it. The EVF is superior in effective clarity to any OVF found in budget APS-C DSLR's with the bonus of being able to show the effect of any exposure/SFX settings you use.
Here's a pic from today taken at ISO6400...
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alphaomega
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by alphaomega »

I ordered the A58 with free delivery (2nd class Royal Mail) and it came this morning by courier. So I saved £5. Appeals to somebody living in Scotland. So what do I think? The instruction book is like a bible in just about every language you could think of but thin on details in English. Never mind, if you are used to A mount menus it was easy to set it up.
The EVF is grainy, but I don't intend to use it. The rear screen is clear and as good as on my other Sony cameras, but only 2.7inch. Good enough for video though. The non metal lens flange does not bother me. The same 18-270 Tamron zoom will stay on. Everything worked as expected. AF and auto metering during video recording. The microphone worked like a dream on the new universal shoe. Even the electronic steady shot facility reduced shaking although not completely. MP4 sequences looked fine. I would say that for the price and intended purchase it was value for money and more than adequate. No doubt the A57 with the 20Mp sensor and the new universal shoe would have been a better proposition, but I must admit that the small package includes a lot of good technology (except the EVF). Don't know how much it would have cost Sony to improve a bit on that particular item. A couple of paces forward and then a bit of reverse for good measure - that seems to be the Sony way of doing things.
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by classiccameras »

I think if they had put the 20mp sensor and the other upgrades and perhaps including more user noise control and better high ISO Jpeg performance in a 57 body, then for me that would be a winner. Currently I'm happy with 16mp and cannot see much advantage for my type of photography in an extra 4mp. I have absolutely no interest in shooting VID on a DSLR, I use my Canon CAM for that which is not that often. Yes, I have been tempted by the A58, but just cannot see much advantage even at the low price over my A37/57.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

Maybe it's me but hands on the A58 doesn't impress. I appreciate it's target market and low ish cost, even so I'm not fond of this model. But not only because it's badly named as the A57 successor (and it certainly is not) There just is nothing here that's going to stop the lets buy a cheap Canon or Nikon D3200 crowd, and bar a decent sensor there isn't a lot there to tempt current A mount users either.

It goes well beyond the plastic lens mount or small buffer too, and it's not really related much to pulling out the level gauge or stripping the IR and normal wired remote ports (few users will care, though the removal of the IR port is stupid)

A spec sheet isn't needed here. When you pick an A58 up it just feels cheap and slightly nasty, you look into the EVF and it's not that great either (a lot smaller than the A57's and not the step up some suggest) You feel the nasty textured plastic which used to be a rubber grip, the smooth flimsy plastic which just doesn't feel very dense, you put it down and wander off. It doesn't grab people in any way. I'm all up for a cheap budget body (as are many) to serve as back up or whatever, but Sony really went too far here cutting it down to the bone. And repeated the same mistake they made years ago (which essentially killed Alpha as a viable alternative to other makers in the budget sector) fiddling around stripping stuff out, where other makers are adding more things.

It's not only not that interesting to new users, it makes the criminal mistake of not really being that interesting to current users (this offers little new and a lot less than previous bodies) I can only see the A58 as a mistake from Sony. And their much touted 8fps is basically misleading too, that's only with crop mode on cont shooting. And with a tiny buffer (my Km5d actually can shoot more jpegs than the Sony in cont mode) what's the point anyway?

Really disappointed about this, and with no real A57 update looming it's a real let down for many users. Even worse we hear about no A65 update either.
Alpha is really in no mans land right now, a boring entry model..2 dated higher models and a pricey FF option.

Models like the A58 are actually really important for any camera maker, it's a sign of lack of market understanding from Sony with such a weak effort.
Yes it takes nice photos, but what's the point if most users don't really want to even pick the thing up!
alphaomega
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by alphaomega »

No doubt Barry Fitzgerald is right in most of the points he is making about the A58, but in my case the camera at £290 fulfills my requirements of excellent quality MP4 video, AF during video recording as well as auto metering. Will accept my new microphone and providing steady shot stabilisation during video recording. This latter does provide a degree of stabilisation during operation. Furthermore it will accept my 18-270 Tamron motorised zoom already in my inventory. That is all that matters. The lens mount, body shape and all the other objections listed are of no interest to me. the body can be any shape mounted on a tripod. The 20Mp APS-C sensor provides excellent quality MP4 recording and the sound is good with Sony's new microphone costing around £100.
I initiallly thought that I might purchase the A6000, but the rumour of inbuilt IBIS was false and I sensed that before I made the A58 purchase.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/source-c ... e-mistake/
So what will I purchase next? Tamron's newly announced 16-300 mm zoom for APS-C on my A580? That is, if the lens is any good.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/tamron-a ... uperzooms/
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

At the right price even products like the A58 can be attractive. I feel though that the cost cutting is a bit much for me, however if the price went into the £250 segment it might be worth a look even for me. It's hovering around £300 which isn't a lot but it needs to get down to EOS 1100d levels to tempt. It's been out a year now and is sure to drop even more.

What does concern me is DK's remarks about the AF he didn't seem too impressed with it. I also ran across one user on a forum (DPR) who bought one and had focus problems, months later tried another one and it was still causing more problems than expected. One can't help but ponder if the AF is reliable enough even for a back up body, or if the cost cutting seeped into other QC areas.

Overall I think Sony would have been better off with an upper entry model with more stuff to tempt, at the 650d price range. It remains to be seen if they will try to only sell the A58 as the entry point and not offer a more mid level body.
alphaomega
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by alphaomega »

At the right price even products like the A58 can be attractive. I feel though that the cost cutting is a bit much for me, however if the price went into the £250 segment it might be worth a look even for me. It's hovering around £300 which isn't a lot but it needs to get down to EOS 1100d levels to tempt. It's been out a year now and is sure to drop even more.
I really think that the difference between £290 and £250 makes no difference. If the camera is not good enough at £290 it won't be at £250 either.
What does concern me is DK's remarks about the AF he didn't seem too impressed with it.
Only tested AF indoor on Tamron 18-270mm motorised zoom and found focusing quite responsive. That is for my purposes. I will find out later, when the weather improves, if this holds true outdoor. It should.
Overall I think Sony would have been better off with an upper entry model with more stuff to tempt, at the 650d price range. It remains to be seen if they will try to only sell the A58 as the entry point and not offer a more mid level body.
I would agree that Sony's product releases are in a mess. Difficult to make any head or tail of it. There seems to be no overall plan to end up with a logical set of cameras to fill defined user groups.
Surprised to read (on SAR) the specification for the A6000 thus
A6000 spec reminder: New 24,3 MP sensor, phase detection pixels on sensor, same A7 EVF, fastest AF of all Sony mirrorless cameras, Wifi and NFC, same NEX-6 controls, A7 grip, price 650 Euro
Why would I want to purchase this camera when I have the NEX-6? Why would a NEX-7 owner want it unless they are desperate for the new universal shoe. I don't need 24Mp and the NEX-6 focus speed is OK. The NEX-6 EVF is as good at the NEX-7 etc. etc. Where is the inbuilt Steady Shot and A7 EVF? What about some thinking rather than tinkering. There is no alignment and real progression. Just my thoughts.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

2 Points while it might seem silly I basically look at a product and say that's worth xyz price to me, if it's not that price I don't buy it.
A new A79 at £1000 I wouldn't buy (I think that's too high for an APS-C product)

A58 is cheap but it's going to have to be even cheaper to get my attention. I also note the A65 has had a price cut no doubt on clear out. For some it might be worth going for that model.

On the AF I'd be more interested in the performance with some f2.8/f4 zooms and some faster primes. AF issues should show up fairly quickly with such lenses.
alphaomega
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by alphaomega »

Just had a chance to take out my A58 in a little bit of sunshine before the next low pressure system turned up. First of all I am surprised at the utility of the EVF, notwithstanding the bombardment of criticism levelled at it. I presume some of those have not actually used it. Initially I only used it inside in dull conditions and noticed some graininess. However hard as it is to write it, the A58 EVF could actually be better than the NEX-6 in bright conditions. I saw no smudging on movement, but did not try a violent "swing". I would say the A58 EVF is OK for my usage and pretty sharp as well. I had on my Tamron 18-270 motorized zoom. I must admit that the 100% views were almost as good as normal view on a 22 inch monitor. A tad soft at 270 but that is the lens. There is some substance to the assertion that Sony's 20Mp sensor is "oozing" of quality. The 2.7 in rear screen is a function of body size. What is missing? I think Barry Fitzgerald is right when he points out that the removal of the remote function was a mistake. Fortunately I have other cameras with that function built in.
mixxer
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by mixxer »

" I think Barry Fitzgerald is right when he points out that the removal of the remote function was a mistake."

So do I. Thankfully, the problem has been (partially) resolved with the Android app RCCDROID. I've been using it for a couple of weeks now with no issues and apparently the developer has additional features planned for the near future.
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bfitzgerald
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Re: A58 has best image quality

Unread post by bfitzgerald »

More convenience really. I have an android tablet and it's handy to have use of that with cameras. It's just easier to leave the IR remote port in, for the sake of pennies seems like a pointless removal.

Small annoyances can add up. Like I said Sony went too far cutting things down
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