SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

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bfitzgerald
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SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:57 pm

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-sony ... or-coming/

Now I know SAR isn't always right, but this adds fuel to the fire with those pondering if A mount is going to be "slowly wound down"
I'm not sure what Sony's strategy is, but expect the new A77 to be over £1000
That leaves only the A58 at the low end, and I assume when the A65 is discontinued there will be no model to fill that gap

That's a walking sales disaster, it's like Canon stopping their EOS 650/700d model..which is easily their best selling camera, and the single most important model they have (ie they get people into their mount with models in that price range)

Now either SAR are horribly wrong (ie an updated A65 will turn up sometime this year) or Sony will try to sell the A65 for longer (possible but unlikely) or Sony are just going to have a few A mount models, less than they've ever had.

I personally doubted Sony would dump A mount, but if this is right it does look like they might be doing a very slow wind down. I'm not sure how you can compete without a competitive entry and mid level body line up, in fact Canon proved from day one (EOS 300/350) how important such models are. Is the ship sinking? Maybe not yet, but there does seem to be a leak and it's not getting plugged.

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby alphaomega » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:00 pm

Saw that on SAR. I don't think the A65 sold too well. Same could probably be said about the A77. Maybe Sony are going to do a A7/A7r pricing gamble to sell the A77 successor at a lower price than the A77. Maybe they are coming out with a mirrorless camera with a hybrid PD and CD AF sensor. Not sure how many legacy lenses could actually be updated, but removing mirrow would provide for a cost reduction. Maybe the replacement would actually be priced at the A65 level and negate a replacement.
Looks like an old rumor that A-mount would be more for professionals and enthusiasts is becoming a reality. Maybe we might not see a lot below that A77 replacement. Actually, as far as I am concerned, that is fine. I laugh every time I see one of these small ladies from Asia running round in Edinburgh photographing with their CAN/NIK with a kit lens when a RX100 or NEX6 with pancake 16-50 would do better and fill/weigh less. Education - Education is what is required and then Sony's strategy might work.

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby alphaomega » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:02 pm

Further to my message above re A77 successor, SAR has referred to
http://www.photographyblog.com/news/son ... _for_2014/
Sony Focuses on Speed for 2014

One can wonder why indeed Sony would release an update to the 70-210G at a "professional" price. Maybe the secret is incapsulated in this quote
The new super-zoom bridge model is just a small part of Sony's emphasis on faster speed for their 2014 cameras, which will also encompass faster auto-focusing speeds.

I stick my neck out and suggest that the A77 and A99 successors will be mirror free and have increased AF and processing speeds together with a further improved fast EVF that will overcome most (but not BF's) objections to EVF compared with OVF. I do not know if they will succeed but I think they are going to have a good go at it.
Note also the comments about the QX series.

Code: Select all

Meanwhile, the Sony Cyber-shot QX10 smartphone module apparently sold out in the UK during the Christmad period. Aided by strong sales of the more expensive QX100 model, the Sony QX series will definitely continue into the second generation.

Maybe Barry Fitzgerald would like to comment on this in view of his earlier views.

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:29 pm

No need to comment, few serious users will have any slight interest in the QX products. I've no idea how they've sold, there might be a gimmick appeal to some buyers, I can't see it being a way forward for smart phone users bar playing around with remote capture.

I've no real idea what Sony have planned for A mount longer term, and as scary as it might sound, I suspect Sony don't have the slightest clue either :mrgreen:

The only comment to repeat is that you can't run a mount without a full range of bodies. A mount isn't attractive to most "high end/pro" level shooters, so concentrating on that segment only tells me this is an Olympus E3/E5 exit strategy a couple of years down the road. Sony won't come out and say that, purely because they know many will dump the mount very quickly for another maker. The only question that remains is if Sony can make a suitable product that might appeal to A Mount users down the road, and sort out their adaptor situation.

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby classiccameras » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:31 pm

Olympus promised 4/3 users that they would continue to support that format, this was before the OM-D was launched. Every one was hoping for a new 16mp 4/3 body, but no, the support added up to an adaptor for 4/3 to M/4/3. Being a member of the 4/3 forum I can vouch for many members jumping ship to other brands. Is this what Sony will try to do.
Sony need to be transparent as regards their commitments and their entry level to mid level A mounts need addressing quickly or more people will flee to other brands. I think Barry is right though, they won't reveal anything.
Sony, stop digging that hole before its too deep to get out.

Check out the rumoured new Fujifilm X-T1, a retro [Fujica] design which actually looks more convincing than Nikon's effort.

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby Heidfirst » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:16 pm

tbh I never understood why they introduced the A65 in the first place as imo it was too close to the A77.
As for the QX series apparently they have sold well - demand outpacing stock/manufacturing.

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby bakubo » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:35 pm

Heidfirst wrote:As for the QX series apparently they have sold well - demand outpacing stock/manufacturing.


I posted elsewhere that both Kodak and Vivitar have announced new products that are similar to the Sony QX cameras.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7378

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:11 pm

Heidfirst wrote:tbh I never understood why they introduced the A65 in the first place as imo it was too close to the A77.
As for the QX series apparently they have sold well - demand outpacing stock/manufacturing.



Let's put it like this..it's quite possible in a few months that Sony will only have
A £300 entry model, and a new A77 one for over £1000 and the A99 for £1700 odd

That's a pretty crazy model line up if I ever saw one. You can't have a £700 gap with nothing to offer potential buyers.
The A65 right now is about £100 less than the A77, and honestly at the price point I'd get the A77 it's so close in price. The real problem comes with the new A77 as the price is going to be significantly higher, leaving a huge gap

Let's not forget that Sony's own IR interview they basically said the 5 series models are now equivalent of 3 series ones. You can't have a 3 series model and skip the mid range entirely. It's up to Sony to make a product that offers more than the A58, and fits between that and the A78 or whatever they call that.

I think it's quite easy to do, very easy in fact. You just scrub the mag alloy/sealing, have less AF points, I would personally add a second control dial, and some AF adjustments. Other makers have been moving forward more than Sony, it's time to respond to that. If they don't they've basically cut off any hope of bringing new users into A Mount (the upper entry/mid range is where all the sales are)

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby Heidfirst » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:20 am

bfitzgerald wrote:Let's put it like this..it's quite possible in a few months that Sony will only have
A £300 entry model, and a new A77 one for over £1000 and the A99 for £1700 odd)

It's also quite possible that they will introduce another model in between.
Or it has been suggested that the future policy will be to restrict A-mount to the higher/professional end.
Let's face it other than things that need the speed of PDAF for fast-moving subjects or the ergonomics of a largish DSLR to balance large lenses what can't an E-mount Alpha (nee NEX) potentially do? Even those can be achieved by using an A-E PDAF converter or building a larger DSLR-like E-mount body (A3000 on steroids).

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby peterottaway » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:22 am

Or of course Sony could adopt the Nikon strategy of having massive warehouses full of cameras so that they can offer the D3100, D3200, D3300, D5100, S5200, D5300, D7000 and D7100 just in APS cameras. And that doesn't even include the "new" D7200 to be announced in the next few weeks. Now that's really covering your market :?

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby Heidfirst » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:38 am

you forgot the D300s & D90, both shown as still current http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/produ ... _SLR.page?. ;)

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby peterottaway » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:44 am

Sorry about that it seems to be my long term memory that is shot.

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:20 pm

Heidfirst wrote:
bfitzgerald wrote:Let's put it like this..it's quite possible in a few months that Sony will only have
A £300 entry model, and a new A77 one for over £1000 and the A99 for £1700 odd)

It's also quite possible that they will introduce another model in between.
Or it has been suggested that the future policy will be to restrict A-mount to the higher/professional end.
Let's face it other than things that need the speed of PDAF for fast-moving subjects or the ergonomics of a largish DSLR to balance large lenses what can't an E-mount Alpha (nee NEX) potentially do? Even those can be achieved by using an A-E PDAF converter or building a larger DSLR-like E-mount body (A3000 on steroids).



A mount has no pro level presence, almost none. Why push products in that direction when it can't possibly work?

E mount has some problems, no IBIS for one, many bodies have no viewfinder, flash support is hit and miss (some bodies have no hot shoe even)
Adaptor is bulky and adds cost, the adaptors that are there have an SLT mirror.

If Sony had off sensor "fast/good tracking" AF then you might have a point.
Other than that I think Sony wasted their time and money with A Mount, and probably wasted ours too.

They would probably have been much better off just staring their own E mount from day one, and let someone else buy Konica Minolta's camera division.

I just don't fine E mount interesting at all, not even remotely close to what I'm looking for, ILC's are not what I want..and looking at the sales of mirror less in Europe and the USA, they're far from a hit with many buyers.

E mount has limited growth potential. Even if A mount users moved over, they'll take their lenses and effectively buy very little or nothing for native E mount. Sony can't make profits like that, they missed that point and it's a very obvious one to make. That's why I said years ago ILC's could never have the growth/profit value for sales that DSLR's do. The can fit adaptor mount is the profit killer point most ILC makers entirely missed.

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby bakubo » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:37 pm

Barry, with all your ideas about how a camera company should be run have you ever considered using Kickstarter to get some funding to start your own? Design cameras the proper way, sell them for great prices, wonderfully reliable gear, have the proper sterling support, regular meaningful updates to products, free retrofit and update of older products so no customers are left out in the cold, never make incompatible changes, never abandon anything, etc. I think if you could do that funding should be easy to get.

http://www.kickstarter.com/

How many of you would kick in some money to get this sort of camera company?

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Re: SAR: A77 update coming, no A65 update

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:26 pm

Even with funding starting a camera company nowadays is really a non starter. Even makers who have lots of resources struggle (Samsung for one)
They've loads of cash yet cannot break into the market in an effective way.

I think the problem is A mount has not received the attention and development it should have. Sony have been in charge for 8 years, yet have had quite mixed results by changing direction too often, failing to observe even the most basic rules of the game, such as updating models in a timely fashion (before discontinuing older models)

The SAR news means we could be 5-6 months away from an (in shops) with a new A77, even that delay on it's own is a mistake and a costly one. Canikon are discounting heavily in the EU. Sony are in big trouble with A mount, an entry model that too weak to make a difference, a FF model too expensive to matter, and a new A78 will enter the market at a price well above it's Canikon rivals, thus unlikely to have any serious impact.


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