What to do next?

Specifically for the discussion of the A-mount DSLR range
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classiccameras
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby classiccameras » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:44 pm

I suspect Sony are struggling to get the smaller E mount lenses for FF affordable? and with a half decent performance.

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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby Atgets_Apprentice » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:36 pm

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If sony would drop the obsessions with smallest/lightest/fastest, stopped trying to be one step ahead of where the opposition aren't going, and just concentrated on good, reliable cameras in a coherent system, they'd have a lot more happy users.

I had a chat with "Sony" on Facebook this week, on their "Sony City" post. I started off by saying that if Sony was a city, I'd move to another city, probably Nikonopolis. After a bit of tooing and froing, where they tried to convince me otherwise, I told them this:

"Not until you go back to producing A mount cameras with optical viewfinders. I've tried all the A mounts from a33 - a77, and wasn't tempted by any of them, and I have too much invested in lenses to want to use an E mount camera system , with or without lens adaptors. A lot of A mount users feel let down by Sony in their current camera direction. Start listening to existing customers, and not just the boffins who dream up the gizmos that get shoe horned into cameras that keep missing the mark. Canikon still use OVFs, and I don't see their market share diminish as Sony's increases. You will never make inroads into their domination with the current model line up, and with the seeming lack of coherent direction."

Strangely, Sony stopped replying after this post.

That says it all, really.
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....

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bakubo
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby bakubo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:08 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:It is disappointing that Sony have not yet realised the potential of a full frame body at much more affordable levels, for A mount. I personally fear an E mount only future with adaptors, and currently I don't see products that will meet my own personal needs.


But, notice how nice and ergonomic a camera becomes when you add the adapter and A-mount lens to an E-mount camera. :)

nex_slt_adapter.jpg
nex_slt_adapter.jpg (145.21 KiB) Viewed 1963 times

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bakubo
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby bakubo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:29 pm

By the way, I think an adapter that doesn't need the SLT for an OSPDAF body and gets rid of the motor for screw drive lenses could be fairly sleek and would be okay. For people who don't have any screw drive lenses then that would be the way to go. It would be very considerate of Sony though to still sell a version of the adapter with the motor, even if it is ungainly, to allow AF with those old lenses. Actually, lots of the those screw drive lenses aren't old because they are still being sold by Sony.

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Dr. Harout
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby Dr. Harout » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:57 pm

A99 + a7rII + Sony, Zeiss, Minolta, Rokinon and M42 lenses

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bakubo
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby bakubo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:14 pm

Take a look at this thread from a few years ago:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=5690

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Birma
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby Birma » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:10 pm

Atgets_Apprentice wrote:I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If sony would drop the obsessions with smallest/lightest/fastest, stopped trying to be one step ahead of where the opposition aren't going, and just concentrated on good, reliable cameras in a coherent system, they'd ... <snip>
... be Canon or Nikon :lol: . I was going to say Pentax but they've had a couple of interesting developments with the K01 and Q system.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.

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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby Atgets_Apprentice » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:38 pm

Birma wrote:
Atgets_Apprentice wrote:I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If sony would drop the obsessions with smallest/lightest/fastest, stopped trying to be one step ahead of where the opposition aren't going, and just concentrated on good, reliable cameras in a coherent system, they'd ... <snip>
... be Canon or Nikon :lol: . I was going to say Pentax but they've had a couple of interesting developments with the K01 and Q system.


Would that be such a bad thing? Being Canon & Nikon seems to work quite well for them.
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....

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Birma
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby Birma » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:08 pm

You're right AA, I was just trying to say that there is not much point in trying to best them at their own game.
Nex 5, Nex 6 (IR), A7M2, A99 and a bunch of lenses.

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Atgets_Apprentice
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby Atgets_Apprentice » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:14 pm

Something Sony have forgotten was they were the ones to introduce "affordable" FF, while Nikon & Canon were still asking big bucks for their top line cameras. The a900 & a850 are both great cameras, but they killed any chance of making inroads by the delay in introducing a successor, and then blew it by putting an EVF in it. Pro photographers are generally a conservative lot, and an a950, using some of the tech but retaining an OVF & flappy mirror might have allowed them to build on the reputation of those cameras, but they had to go OTT, and lost another market segment.

There are none so blind as those that will not see, none so deaf as those who will not hear. Sony will not see, will not hear.
XG-1, XD-5, XD-7, X-500, XG1n, X300, 7000i, 700si, 800si, 500si Super, 600si, Dynax 5, KM 7D, a100, a200, a300, a580. And another 600si.....

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bakubo
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby bakubo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:57 pm

Well, now Canon and Nikon have both expensive and inexpensive FF bodies. Sony decided to not to pursue the A900 and A850 path they were on for a little while. Whether the chance really existed for them to make a success of traditional FF DSLRs, I sure don't know. Seems sort of late now though.

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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby peterottaway » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:05 am

I think you are mirror imaging yourself onto Sony. If the A900 and A850 had been successful then there would have been a successor. Even if they had intended to go EVF in time. What you are expecting from Sony is different from what you are expecting from other camera manufacturers.

It was a very abrupt change without any market preparation. But it has happened, simply bitching is not going to change anything. It's a case you can move on or move out - you have the choice.

P.S. One thing that Sony could have done on its higher performance cameras would have been to introduce an " Emulate OVF " menu item which could have worked as a function of the AEL switch / AF MF or even a half depression of the shutter release button. But that would have involved extra programming and menu complexity when Sony was all ready going in different directions but who knows. Making such as suggestion is to me a positive reaction whilst bring back the lash / OVF is just plain negativity.
Last edited by peterottaway on Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

mixxer
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby mixxer » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:36 am

The simple fact is that the 'traditional' DSLR market is overwhelmingly dominated by Canon and Nikon. To try and take these two on in a head to head would be commercial suicide. Because of their dominance Canon and Nikon have become complacent and are avoiding any real innovation (echos of the British motorcycle industry in the 1960's). They are starting to stagnate and are living on past glories.
Sony have proven that technology can improve on the offerings from the 'Big Two' the only thing holding them back is the petty conservatism in the market. Anyone who can seriously suggest that the EVF of an a37/57/58/65/77 is inferior to the pokey OVF of an equivalent APS-C DSLR is fooling nobody but themselves. Current Sony's are a match for any equivalent Canon/Nikon with regard to stills use and noticably superior in video usage. I know the chorus will cry out "I don't want and never will want video" but why should everyone else be denied a useful and interesting feature because of a blinkered few?
I suggest those who cannot cope with Sony's road map should go to Canon or Nikon and find within 5 years that those companies have either followed Sony's lead or gone into serious decline.

classiccameras
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby classiccameras » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:46 am

Some good observations there mixxer, I agree with most of it. The whole industry is in decline, some sections more than others. Figures will show that DSLR's are in the biggest decline and at the other end of the scale, bridge and superzoom compacts are quite boyant on the world market. Having said that, the biggest area of photographic expansion are Mobiles/cell phones. More pictures are taken on these than all other systems put together. To me they are not a photographic tool, just an image recording facility on a mobile.
Sony have been more innotive than Canikon and so have Pentax to a point. Fuji, which in my view produce some of the best IQ in the business with high quality build and design are also innotive but they need to check their prices if cameras like their recent retro are going to survive in this already shrinking market. I like using my EVF on the A-37/57 and its a vast improvement from looking down an optical 'tunnel' on a DSLR. If you have an old 35-mm SLR, have a look through the view finder then compare to your DSLR, digital are no ware near yet and I don't think they ever will be which is why in my opinion an EVF is a good compromise.

alphaomega
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Re: What to do next?

Unread postby alphaomega » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:09 am

Interesting comments above. My main interest is photographing for Alamy and they have now introduced a new way of submitting images
Sell your iPhone photos with Stockimo, our new free app Find out more at Stockimo.com

The Stockimo app allows you to upload iPhone images from your phone and get them up for sale on Alamy. Stockimo is the name of the app, it has a brand of its own but it’s 100% owned and run by Alamy.

You need an iphone, but a sign that a major photo library is opening up for mobile phone photography.
I think that Sony are closer to exploring this new development than CAN/NIK although they cannot yet tap into this because of the operating system limitations, but Alamy are thinking of an android app as well in furure.
I also think that Sony are closer to being a major player now with their latest products with Bionz X, faster AF better EVF and connectivity. If they play their cards right they could be a major player in five years time, but then there is no guarantee they have the foresight and stamina. They must now settle on a road map for cameras and lenses so that users have an idea of what can be expected.
I for one am staying with APS-C. Too much investment in APS-C cameras and lenses both A and E mount. Don't see a need to "leap" to FF. APS-C is good enough for my requirements and getting better.


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