Future of A mount

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classiccameras
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:05 pm

They all trashed the SLT system unjustifiably in my opinion because they found the SLT robbed the sensor of some light. Can't say I saw this in real life pictures, DPReviews even got blamed amongst other review sites for trashing the Olympus 4/3 cameras system to the point Olympus lost a lot of sales and eventually discontinued the format in favour of Micro/4/3, which are doing quite well, I'm in the Panasonic Micro/4/3 club with my GX7 and it takes superb pics
My local camera store is a Pentax main dealer and they are really pushing the newer APS-C bodies for discounted prices, the lenses though are grossly over priced, but there is always 3rd party to build a system,

As for 61 MP, I get some outstanding pics from 12 and 16 mp

Bakubo, your probably more sensible than odd

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:07 pm

The light loss is there, though it probably hurt the older cameras more than the newer ones. Remember I had the D7000 and the A57, the Nikon is slightly better in low light (less chunky noise at high ISO), but it has no anti shake/IS. So it kinda was less of a problem due to that. I'm not sure if it had impact on sales - it bothers me less than it did, but I feel it is a valid downside to mention - perhaps not as huge as it might be.
I know the 5dMkIII is better at high ISO v the A99, but again no IS and I got one for a very good price. The DR gap is huge even the APS-C cameras blew the mkIII away - that was more important to me.

What I find interesting is the persistent love affair with mirrorless from the "influencers" who is the past panned it. DPR are a bit like that, they see themselves as some sort of driving force for mirrorless. Only thing that interests me is the ability to mount many lenses. What doesn't is the crazy expensive lens prices for native optics - prices I simply will not pay.

As I do YT myself I know what goes on, more views = more income. Photography has heavy brand loyalty - no better way to whip people up than to post controversial videos; micro 4/3 is dead, A mount/Pentax is dead. Tony's pretty clued into things from a business perspective - but I don't find his videos in recent times fall into the "useful" category. $ony are pretty clever, they bagged a lot of big influencers who spew marketing for them to their followers. I'm not convinced, some gullible folks might be ;-D

Rarely are things black and white, people rave about WYSIWYG on EVF's. I got used to them certainly some advantages, I still crave an optical finder it too has advantages.

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bakubo » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:55 pm

classiccameras wrote:Bakubo, your probably more sensible than odd


Over the last few decades I guess I have just been very good at knowing myself and what I value. If you know that then choosing a camera that matches up with what you want is not all that difficult. For my primary photographic interest (street, travel, etc.) my m4/3 gear that I started using in April 2012 has been the best ever. Small size, lighter weight, great lenses, great sensors, fast, very accurate AF, amazing IBIS, and mostly reasonable prices -- especially if you shop around a bit. The 5 m4/3 bodies I have bought since the first one in April 2012 and the 12 lenses and 1 flash were all bought at good prices, less than the full retail, and all new.

I find m4/3 to be a pretty good jack-of-all-trades system, but like any system it has compromises. You just have to know what compromises you care about and which ones you don't. Also, you have to prioritize things so that a downside aspect that is personally not that important doesn't loom so large in your mind that you forgo an upside aspect that is very important to you. Again, that is all about knowing yourself. (I think lots of people don't know themselves and that leads to all kinds of mistakes and misery in life.) If after 46 years of photographing I was to change my primary focus then there is a possibility that I might choose a different system for that new focus because then my priorities are likely to change as well.

I like the smaller m4/3 bodies, but you give up a little on ergonomics. With m4/3 though I could buy the larger bodies (Olympus E-M1II, E-M1X, Panasonic G9, GH5) to get better ergonomics if that was important to me. And all my lenses would work 100% on any of them. I prefer the smaller bodies though for travel.

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:57 pm

Micro 4/3 took some time to get established when the E 4/3 system was discontinued, Photographers were wary of the new format, but eventually the size/weight advantage won many over to the system. Yes, excellent sensors, Olympus now use Sony Sensors, but not sure if Panasonic still use their own, as you may remember all EVOLT Olympus cameras used Panasonic sensors except for the very early models that used Kodak CCD sensors

I'm very pleased with my Panny GX7, it looks like a range finder camera but has a tilting EVF, ergonomically not as good to hold and operate as a DSLR, but the picture quality is outstanding and I can build a small system round that body. However I still like holding a DSLR up at my eye like my A37. Yes, there are some compromises with micro/4/3 but not enough to put you off the system and as you say make that system work for you. I found my EM-10 body just to small and fiddly to use up at the eye, that's now sold

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:08 am

If I'm correct m4/3 all their bodies have IS built in
I find it very useful - hugely. It's puzzling why Sony denies this to their entry/mid APS-C users only the full frame ones have it
Seems like a deliberate omission to up sell to the more expensive cameras. Have to say at A6600 prices and those new lenses, I'd just ignore the crop sensor cameras -they are not appealing
Anyway we still await something, might be a long wait.

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bakubo
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bakubo » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:31 pm

bfitzgerald wrote:If I'm correct m4/3 all their bodies have IS built in
I find it very useful - hugely. It's puzzling why Sony denies this to their entry/mid APS-C users only the full frame ones have it
Seems like a deliberate omission to up sell to the more expensive cameras. Have to say at A6600 prices and those new lenses, I'd just ignore the crop sensor cameras -they are not appealing
Anyway we still await something, might be a long wait.


Yes, Olympus has had IBIS all along and for the last few years Panasonic has also. The Panasonic GX7 from 2013 was the first Panasonic with IBIS. The later Panasonic bodies have more effective IBIS than the 1st generation Panasonic IBIS in the GX7, of course.

The GX7 is still quite a nice camera. It was followed by the GX7 II (GX85 in the U.S.) and GX7 III (GX9 in the U.S.). I like the Japan names better since it is much clearer which cameras are in that line.

This video is about telecentricity which seems to be the way the others are going now too.

The Truth About Nikon Z & Canon RF Mounts - Did Micro Four Thirds Adopt Similar Approach?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmVrme5sQl4

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:05 am

Interesting video, I suspect though that these Nikon 'Z' & Canon 'RF' lenses are not going to be cheap, and it will also be interesting to see if the 3rd party lens manufactures get interested.

Most Panasonic lenses have built in ILS which is activated when attached to a Panasonic body,
When Olympus first came up with the 4/3 system, it was to design a completely new digital system from the ground up rather than adapting from another design. Several manufactures signed up to the 4/3 concept, Kodak, Fuji, Panasonic, and Olympus, 2 have survived and doing well, but Kodak seems to have fallen by the way side and Fuiji never did go down that road, Kodak's first involvement was making 4/3 CCD sensors for Olympus, later to be replaced by Panasonic CMOS sensors.

I'm very pleased with the image quality from my GX7 and that's just with the 12-32, F/3.5, I am still looking for a tele zoom to complete my simple system, but not a big long one, may be up to 140.

What's happened to Kodak M/4/3, they had a couple of basic kit lenses in their system and not very expensive, but not sure how good or bad they were.

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bakubo
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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bakubo » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:17 pm

classiccameras wrote:I'm very pleased with the image quality from my GX7 and that's just with the 12-32, F/3.5, I am still looking for a tele zoom to complete my simple system, but not a big long one, may be up to 140.


The Olympus 40-150mm f4.0-5.6 gets great reviews from users. I don't have it, but I have held it many times in stores in Japan. Very small and light (has a plastic mount). It goes on sale pretty often. Last week it was $99.99 in the U.S.

https://www.getolympus.com/us/en/lenses/m-zuiko-digital-ed-40-150mm-f4-0-5-6-r.html

Another small, light, inexpensive one is the Panasonic 45-150mm f4-5.6 which also gets great user reviews.

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:08 pm

As nothing has turned up this year, and a lack of any possible release rumours. It's not looking likely we'll get anything
Question remains how long Sony continue to sell A mount gear new -which seems to be their strategy possibly for hold outs and bargain lens hunters, their problem is the new prices on gear are a non runner.
On the other hand whenever I look at their E mount offerings, APS-C is crippled with only 2 bodies with steadyshot, the only affordable FF ones are dated and offer not that much for FF A Mount users. Let's not even talk about lens prices ;-D
I've now 4 A mount bodies and quite a lot of lenses - I've no desire to switch or move to mirrorless. And that won't change unless Sony remove some of the limitations with their crippled adapters!

All you can say about E Mount and their adapters is something is better than nothing (ie you can use it at least)
Value wise native E mount lenses are insanely priced (as are all of the mirrorless lenses). Seems makers are selling so little their plan is to extreme price gouge. Their problem is unlike SLR mounts, you can use many different lenses with adapters even if it's with some limitations. In the long run that is going to hurt them IMO. I bet 2020 isn't any better for them

http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/dw-201910_e.pdf

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:20 pm

There is no future for 'A' mount, Stick with what you've got or jump ship

A merry Christmas and a happy New Year

Classiccameras

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:35 pm

classiccameras wrote:There is no future for 'A' mount, Stick with what you've got or jump ship

A merry Christmas and a happy New Year

Classiccameras


I don't doubt that, what I find odd is they continue to sell stuff
It might make more sense to discontinue everything - then folks know what the story is

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby classiccameras » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:01 pm

Its pretty obvious that Sony have been slowly Weening A mount users off A mount in the hopes they will convert to E mount, now that all the other major manufacturers have slowly adopted a mirrorless format and more compact ILC cameras, it makes sense for Sony to be up there with them in competition. I have said it several times, I don't like E mount bodies or E mount lenses or the prices of both, I much prefer M/4/3 to E mount, I still have my old A-37 but more of a keepsake than a current system to carry round. I now use Panasonic
May be Sony are selling off old factory stock to the trade

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bakubo » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:24 am

The only A-mount bodies I still have are the A700 and A100. Oh, I still have my old film A-mount bodies (7, 707si, 7xi, 7000i -- sold the 9xi years ago). All of that stuff is packed away back in the States and I am still in Japan though.

A-mount probably won't have much in the way of new releases. I suppose Sony is just selling off all their stock over time. IMO, the A-mount bodies that one can buy either used or new are still quite good. A99, A99II, A77, A77II, A900, A850, etc. Digital is just not changing as much or as fast as it was in the 2000-2012 period. I have 5 m4/3 bodies bought from 2012 to 2016. I am quite happy with them and haven't been all that tempted by any of the newer ones because they add stuff and/or improve in areas that I don't use (C-AF, video, etc.).

I still have a few old A-mount lenses:

    Minolta 70-210mm f4 beercan
    Minolta 35-70mm f4
    Minolta 28-135mm f4-4.5
    Tokina 20-35mm f3.5-4.5
    Tamron 70-300mm f4-5.6
    Minolta 50mm f1.7 (the later one, not the one from 1985)
    Sigma 90mm f2.8 macro
    Sigma 24mm f2.8
I was pretty happy with all of them a long time ago. They are all back in the States. Sometimes I think I should pick up a used A99 since the prices are not bad and I could make use of them again sometimes (most definitely not for travel though).

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:25 pm

I like the A99 most out of all the cameras I have, even after I bought Mike's A77II just recently
Something about the images appeals a bit more, not that the other cameras are bad -perhaps it's nice to get back to 35mm
Anyone who has a lot of FF lenses I'd say well worth getting one, though at times I wish I had an A900 to get that OVF vibe I miss.

Sony really dropped the ball on the A99, it's a very good camera overall despite not beefing up the AF or the 6fps shooting (neither bother me but I didn't pay full price new). They messed up by releasing it at such a high price, around £2500 at the time I believe. The camera was never worth that IMO, but as a bargain s/h buy it's a shocking good camera even after 7 years. Out of the 4 bodies I have it's the one that I would keep if I could only have one

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Re: Future of A mount

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:16 pm

With recent events I think the title should now be "future of camera industry" as a whole.
Where I am there is a full lockdown (2km no non essential trips), almost all shops are shut, there is of course a heavy reliance where I am on tourism -which is non existent as you'd expect. Bar food purchasing the entire economy has ground to a halt
This could be the biggest crash for a long time, incomes plummet and jobs are lost. I can't see me getting too many guest house/B&B jobs in 2020 with no visitors, and of course the marathons are postponed. If they ever take place hard to say at this stage

What I do know is the impact is going to dwarf the 2008 crash if this carries on for more than a few more weeks. With that in mind I think it might be a turning point for the photo industry (it's going to cause problems all round for paid work which is gone right now) and for makers - they are going to feel the pain even more. It might be enough to push things over the line for a few makers, we'll have to see how this pans out. Strange times - might accelerate some makers leaving the industry, which was probably long overdue.

On the other hand it could lead to more "realistic" pricing with even lower demand in an attempt to re-build sales which were already pretty bad.


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