Sony A-99 11

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bfitzgerald
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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:14 pm

Sony actually lost market share recently in Japan yes other regions out there but still their home turf:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/japan-20 ... ket-share/
Fuji is going for a niche market in the X series it will probably survive long term, it's unfortunate that they wiped out their compact/zoom range because a few of them were pretty good I use the X10 quite a bit and the X zoom models used a few also very decent cameras.

Sony will come under pressure with prices it's quite a cut throat business as they are finding out. Canon released a lot of models probably too many they are likely hoping more models sticks bit like Sony and their E mount bodies overloading the market with them

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby CHOLLY » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:00 am

sury wrote:CHOLLY,
I was looking for Sony news elsewhere and could not find any. Your link to CNBC is almost a year old. Do you have latest info?

Sury


Reports for last year are due in a couple of weeks....

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby sury » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:58 am

Aah. Thank you.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby classiccameras » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:38 am

Nikon seem to bring out a new body every 6 months, I know that's an exaggeration, but its close. We now have 6 up date/variants of the D5000 in a space of less years. as said, Canon are almost as prolific. Yes, I also have the Fuji X-10 bought a year after launch, its a great little compact with excellent sensor and lens and its already earned the 'iconic' label. Not so impressed with later variants. I liked the idea of the XT-10 as a CSC with large APS-C sensor. Interestingly DPreview said about the Fuji 16-mp sensor now lagging behind 24-mp cameras, if it aint broke, don't fix it, or words to that effect Totally agree. Its really been a bit of a mixed bag from Sony, at one point they seemed to be a ship with no rudder and on the other their venture into E mount has had a small success, but its not sailed away because of prices. Sony need to be a lot more dynamic if they are to survive with the big boys. Agree, Fuji will be there for the long haul as I think M/4/3 will be.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby CHOLLY » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:16 pm

:?: :?: :?: :?:

Sony is one of the FEW companies that is actually... TURNING A PROFIT SELLING CAMERAS.

The other "big boys"... are in fact, LOSING MONEY.

LOTS OF IT.

Those new offerings from Canon are MINOR tweaks in OLD technology with NEW technology asking prices. The 7DmkII and 5DmkIV are PRIME examples.

Nikon is better... mainly because they are using Sony sensors to improve their IQ from model to model... but Nikon is HEMORRHAGING money just to stay in the game.

I submit AGAIN... that the successful companies will only submit for sale, what the market will bear... and today's iphone and Galaxy users just won't spend the extra cash to buy a serious camera when they already think they have one in their pocket. :(

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:22 pm

Might be time to get a brush up on some maths:
http://www.canon.com/ir/finance/highlight.html

Profits are down (and yes same on Nikon hence job losses and restructuring). I'm not an accountant but I'm not seeing Canon or Nikon going out of business any time soon. There is a big difference between a loss and a profit (be it a higher or lower than previous years etc). Companies that continue to post losses and big ones ie actually losing money are not sustainable. In neither case can see that happening to Canikon. You have a short memory it wasn't long ago Sony were posting big losses and had to take serious action to reverse that:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/10/busin ... index.html

I believe the earthquake problems also pushed them into a loss last year first half results
I wouldn't call the stone mason to carve the headstones for Nikon and Canon just yet. Anyway I thought competition was good? If you just have one maker that wouldn't really push them to improve products.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby peterottaway » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:22 am

I do think that classic camera is over gilding the lily with his comments about Sony, because I can easily find the same criticisms not only about Canon and Nikon but about Olympus and Fujifilm as well. It is just a matter of accepting the compromised offerings that best suit you.

It is very frustrating and can be expensive to find that what you want is best offered by another camera system but these things happen. I am a multi format and multi system user which have been acquired bits and pieces over many years. So when I make a purchase it is with that in mind and for the last couple of years we simply haven't had a lot of other expenses and have been able to indulge ourselves. I am as much of a film user as digital although I did retire my last enlarger in 2009 after about 5 years of little use.

But we moved into a new house in 2011 almost 6 months late. And even with a lot of planning and what I consider a healthy extras budget things very, very much did not go as planned. It took some 3 to almost four years to get really get established again and even for a few years before we built things were pretty tight financially.

I do not like the A6xxx ( the A7 is usable but far from ideal to me ) camera design at all and if I was into APS cameras I would almost certainly be looking at either be looking at either a Fuji X-T2 or even the just introduced 20 model. As long as I found a system based on the available primes, the very nice "kit" lens and the 10-24 zoom. But trying to use the 50-140 is totally a different matter and I really question their choice to sensor. The new Olympus would make a very nice APS camera if slightly larger, nice but expensive. I still haven't seen a Canon digital camera based on price, performance and features that say Buy Me. But I did pick up a little used Canon EOS 1 film camera out of Japan at a good price as I do have a small collection of Canon EF lenses for my A7r cameras and they are still plentiful enough as an extra bow to my film cameras.

Most people probably would have gone about things differently. And if Sony want to sell me a higher end E mount camera before my current cameras expire then it had better look more like an A99 or even the X-T2 rather than the current crop.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby classiccameras » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:24 am

I agree with you re the A6xxxx cameras but more to the point I'm not too interested in E mount any way, I sold my A6000, I don't know why I bought it, must have been one of those spur of the moment things, buy in haste, regret at leasure . Also agree re the Fuji but their lens price structuring is a bit steep, especially when you can see whats on offer from Canikon and Olympus.

In the Sony collection I much prefer A mount although I don't want to venture into FF, currently, I'm running a A37 with a few lenses and an Olympus EM-10 with just the kit zoom. Both are nice to use, but I prefer the Olympus colours and I have no problem with noise as the biggest I go is a large HD monitor screen. I have no intention in enlarging any further so noise is academic.

The new Canon EOS M -5 looks good, its a more sensible size for a CSC than the Olympus EM-10 and the lenses get good reviews and won't break the bank. It has some performance issues which may put off potential buyers especially at the huge launch price they want, but as a stills camera for landscape and general photography it scores well. Wait until prices fall.

I always liked Canon lenses right back to FD manual focus on my AE-1 Program. If I was to return to APS-C DSLR it would be a a coin flip between a used Canon 60D or a used Nikon D7100. I could equip both cameras from the vast used lens market. But, they are big and heavy.

We are in uncertain times for the camera industry, and it will be interesting to see what the future holds for them, I can see a couple of casualties coming and possibly some amalgamations down the road, but it won't be Canikon on either count. I suspect Fuji will survive as I think M/4/3 will, both have carved out a niche market with loyal users. Panasonic are not doing well but like Sony will probably absorb losses in other areas of their electronics empire.
I think we all to a point have the 'grass is greener on the other side' syndrome, when you buy into a system then wonder if XYZ would have been better, and quite often people do jump over. An expensive leap I might add, I did it a few years ago and I'm still pondering my next move.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:02 pm

I think it's more about doing something with A mount rather than ticking it over. I honestly don't expect big action..but it would be nice to occasionally have a new lens come out or an update one. Likewise to price bodies at appropriate levels ie competitive with other makers. If you look back to the older days did we really need 3 entry level bodies and 2 upper entry ones (A5XX)? that was madness. Yet now we have merely 3 models in the entire range which is probably not enough

Lenses some gaps were there for a long time why do you think Tokina make the 11-16mm F2.8 and that is the only lens they offer for A mount? Someone sat down and said ah there is no decent UWA lens for APS-C A mount users..you'd have to be mad to buy the 11-18mm Sony which is a re-badged old lens way out of it's league with modern sensors. That's the exact reason I bought the Tokina it's the only logical choice for buyers.

It remains to be seen what Sony do with A mount but it looks like it's merely treading water in most areas. Yes the A99II is nice to see and shows some commitment, problem is that's not really backed up in other areas. Are 5dMKIV users really going to consider that body and the limitations with the lens range? For new users coming in there is still some appeal if you hunt around for some gems on ebay. I'm sure many would like to see a bit more action on A mount let's see if they update the A77II to a III as it's due for a replacement this year. For me it would be horribly expensive to change mounts due to low resale on some lenses and bodies it's just not worth it even if I dumped the entire inventory I have.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby classiccameras » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:44 pm

I can't see 3rd party lens manufacturers showing any more interest in A mount, may be for E mount, but even that has been stagnant for a long time. We get the odd High end FE mount announced but mostly very high end CZ glass, not for your general snapper.

I really don't think Sony know what they are going to do about a decent (logical) A mount line up, as said, they are treading water, but have been a for a few years. I cannot see new Sony A mount glass coming out as nice as it would be, its a very limited market now. I also can't see Sony enticing that many people away from Canikon FF Pro.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby CHOLLY » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:26 pm

Understand... the camera industry is NOT doing well financially.

The EXCEPTION to that fact is Sony.

That means we as potential buyers can lament the company offerings all we want, but the market is dictating what should and should not be sold. Companies that violate that edict lose money.

Lose money long enough, and they will go under.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby CHOLLY » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:30 pm

BTW, Sony has released at least one A mount camera a year, each year since 2007.

The 4 years between the A99 and A99II are not only equal to the 4 years between the A900 and A99, but between the 5DIII and 5dIV.

Sony representatives have said REPEATEDLY that the A mount is here to stay, and that it is an important part of their photo products division going forward.

There is NO reason not to take them at their word... so long as the market remains viable.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby bfitzgerald » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:04 pm

I don't doubt it is going to stay around..but if it's a small side show then that's not really great for users.
On pricing I think the points are quite valid this guy an E mount user also agrees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrcg67cx774

I might have bought an A77II but with a price that's as expensive as it was at first release for a 3 year old model no thanks. Do Sony want to sell stuff or have it gathering dust on shelves..eventually leading to blow out prices anyway.

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby Eiffel » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:24 pm

I've been a faithful Minolta AF (9000,7xi, 600xi) and then Sony A (200,700,900) user, but am not convinced that the A mount is going to stay for very long, given the lack of new lenses being released... Bodies are one thing, but we need lenses to go with them, and the a 42MP body is quite demanding, especially on the current zoom line
Last edited by Eiffel on Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud owner of DK's dearly missed A900 ;-)

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Re: Sony A-99 11

Unread postby the_hefay » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:41 am

Eiffel wrote: Bodies are one thing, but we need lenses to go with them, and the a 42MP body is quite demanding, especially on the current zoom line


My sentiments exactly.
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