Projection

Computer, TV, digital projector connectivity and associated slideshow, framing, AV/DVD creation software
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picman
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Projection

Unread postby picman » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:43 pm

Like most of us I guess, I am now looking at pictures on a flat TV screen. But quite frankly that is no comparison to looking at projection of slides. I have a Leitz Pradovit and project slides on a 1m80 by 1m80 screen and view from a distance of about 4m. So I am looking into the possibility of projection of digital images.

What does it require (resolution, type of beamer, etc) to get the same visual quality as projection of slides, and are there any beamers that can give you that kind of quality? Leitz has a beamer and it is priced at about 10.000 $ hiccup! So I am talking about other beamers :mrgreen:

Cheers, Bob.

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picman
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Re: Projection

Unread postby picman » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:48 am

I noticed too late that there is another section of the forum for these topics, sorry for that. Nevertheless the deafening silence makes me wonder if it is worth putting the question again in the right section?

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Re: Projection

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:30 pm

I am not sure what you mean by a beamer. Do you mean a data projector - LCD/LDP etc? If so, there is one outstanding choice which is the Optoma HD80 1080p model, the only affordable projector on the market which can project the full resolution of a HDTV 1920 x 1080 image. Most of these cost thousands, the Optoma was selling for well under £1k here before Christmas.

I did not buy, and now I am really annoyed with myself - the current price has almost doubled to £1495-1995 instead of being available at £800. The similar Themescene model has also shot up in price. We were warned, I guess, and I warned people too that UK prices were going up and to buy now. Well, I did not do so myself. I guess the next best choice would be something like a Sony XVGA projector.

David

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Re: Projection

Unread postby picman » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:17 pm

Thanks David, I hoped you would be able to give some information. :D When I say beamer I don't really have a specific item or type in mind, I just used it as a generic term which I thought was used for projection of images (and text) on your computer, on a screen. My aim is really to be able to project a "slide-show" on the computer, not on a flatscreen TV but with a "projector or beamer" on a larger screen as with "real" slides. One thing you already gain when doing that is you preserve the size of vertical shots. Now I really find myself avoiding taking vertical shots because the diminutive size with which you have to see these, especially after you've just watched a horizontal picture, always is a disappointment. My concern however is with the quality. When projecting on a 1m80 by 1m80 screen will the pixels become a factor? Will the image be as sparkling and bright as with a slide-projector?

Thanks, cheers, Bob.

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Re: Projection

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:30 pm

Sorry to say it, but you do not get to rotate vertical shots. I know only projector which does this, the OLEY DP8, which is really only 640 x 640 resolution (i.e., VGA either vertical or horizontal) from a 3.5 inch square LCD panel - it is amazingly cheap, has a built-in TV tuner, the bulbs only cost $50 each and it has everything from HDMI inputs to TV aerial input! But it's a very low resolution projector, the same as an old TV.

All the other projectors using XGA resolution will at least give you a more or less squarer image, 1080 x 768, which means your vertical shots do not suffer the same way they do on a 1080p or 720p dedicated HD projector.

I've done some research just now for you, and come up with one good answer only - the InFocus X9. This is affordable, it is actually an XGA resolution but has a 'fixed' 720p setting for widescreen HDTV projection. Unlike nearly all the other XGA machines, is has an HDMI 1.3 input which means your Alpha 700 or 900 will plug straight into the projector and show images in full 8-bit colour depth (actually, it exceeds that). You can also plug your PC/Mac into it, or TV tuner or recorder, etc. There are a few other models on the market with HDMI 1.3 but often they have a native resolution of 720p, meaning the projected image is always 16:9 widescreen, and of course this makes vertical shots look very small and lost.

I am considering getting a projector, with a view to returning to doing some lecturing and training again (many years since I did that), and this model is so far about the best option for the money I can find.

David

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Re: Projection

Unread postby picman » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:49 pm

Wow, you should not have done my work for me, but thanks a lot :D. I'll try to find out more about that projector. So sorry and surprised however to hear that vertical shots will remain smaller. I find this so strange, surely it cannot be technically more difficult to make a projector which projects "square" or rotates vertical shots. Maybe it is more expensive though.

Thanks again, and cheers, Bob.

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Re: Projection

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:10 pm

OK, I made my own decision. I decided to go for LCD 3-panel projection rather than DLP, because I feel it offers better potential for accurate photographic colour. I also decided to go with Sony and get an EW5 projector for around £100 more than the Optoma or InFocus, because it offers a resolution called WXGA - 1280 x 800. Of course it will also project 720p HD movies and TV, and in my experience, our UK program signals when viewed on 1080p actually look worse than they do on 720p. The 1280 x 800 res of this Sony gives the best vertical resolution I can find, short of spending twice as much on a considerably dimmer Optoma HD800 model - the Sony is 2000 lumens, and can be run using the lamp economy setting yet still be brighter than the Optoma at full power. Technically it lacks contrast, some of the others are 3000:1 or 4000:1 and the Sony is a mere 900:1 - but I would plan to use it with blackout, not for daylight projection where the contrast is a big factor.

It has HDMI input, which means the Alpha can run it directly, but most important is the 1280 x 800 resolution from a laptop (I may well have to upgrade my Mac Powerbook to get that). 800 pixels high will work well for vertical shots.

I'm sure the Sony is lacking some features but should have a better stable still-picture projection quality. Now all I have to do is get my 60 inch screen back from our son.

David

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Re: Projection

Unread postby picman » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:23 am

I'll have to have a look at that model too then. You seem to have studied things very thoroughly. Would be nice to be able to go for Sony :D And yes, I too would only use it in total darkness. Still the 1280x800 is somewhat limiting for vertical shots. It means they would be reduced by a linear factor of 2/3 right? So when projecting they would only be 1m20 high as opposed to 1m80. Still, not bad and I looked up the price, considerably below 1000 Euros, so that's pretty good too.

Cheers, Bob.

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Re: Projection

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:57 am

You will not get anything above 1024 pixels vertically from a data projector - and if you want that, it will be 2000 Euros for anything worth having, and of course you will also get 1920 pixel width which will mean horizontal pics still appear exactly the same amount larger than vertical. My projector should arrive early next week, I'll report on how it behaves with the Alpha connected. I now need to pick up a cheap DVD player, to handle JPEGs etc, as my original (expensive) rig up which is no longer used does not accept any sort of writable DVD. Or a BluRay player maybe, or even a PS3 as those have special functions for handling full size Sony Alpha files.

David

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Re: Projection

Unread postby 01af » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:49 am

David Kilpatrick wrote:I am not sure what you mean by a beamer.

Here in Germany---and possibly in other non-English-speaking countries, too---the word 'beamer' means digital image projector. Most Germans don't understand that this word has no meaning in the English language ... or at least not the intended one (in the USA, a 'beamer' would be a BMW car). It's similar to the word 'handy' which in Germany means cell phone, and most Germans falsely believe it was an English word ... well, actually it is but it doesn't mean cell phone.

English-language expressions and buzzwords are so popular here in Germany, particularly in (but not limited to) the fields of marketing and advertising, that we even start to make up our own 'English' words ...

-- Olaf

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aster
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Re: Projection

Unread postby aster » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:05 pm

01af wrote:we even start to make up our own 'English' words ...

-- Olaf


That's cutely inventive and a creative service for the world in behalf of the native speakers of the language! :D

Yildiz

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Re: Projection

Unread postby bossel » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:21 pm

aster wrote:That's cutely inventive and a creative service for the world in behalf of the native speakers of the language! :D

I frequently invent turkish words (but I forget them as quickly as I say them :wink: ) I actually understood the 'beamer' thing, not noticing this is rather germlish :roll: than english. I remember one occasion where a foreigner in France spoke about 'une canne de café'. Easy for me to understand, but for the real french a 'canne' is a walking stick and not a 'pot'. Languages can be fun.

Another example is handy - Germans use this for cell phone and think it's english. Correct me if I am wrong, but the english would never use handy to say mobile or cell phone?? (And in turkish, always say cep telefonu and not cöp telefonu (ok, that's my own creation :lol: ))

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Re: Projection

Unread postby David Kilpatrick » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:36 pm

The worrying thing is the instrument reed which Armen sent me - apparently ghamish in Armenian is cognate with khamish in Turkish, and has two other meanings, one of which is as rude as you would expect.

David

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aster
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Re: Projection

Unread postby aster » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:19 pm

Thomas, David;

:D I hope you both realize that you two are actually making perfect sense in Turkish! Written and verbally...
Thomas, you know Turkish pretty good, you actually construct new yet very-applicable phrases, exactly the same way any Turkish speaking native person does. There are times the cell phone is referred to as 'çöp telefonu =trash phone' when too many annoying messages arrive and it just dumps them into 'new messages/calls'.

So, you're pretty safe with your new words Thomas. :D

David, you're getting good in Turkish through your musical encounters with Armenian instruments. There's a lot shared between these two languages. So much that, if yoou said those Armenian words in Turkey, there's bound to be some people who understood you quite well, if a little surprisedly. :D

You're right about 'khamish=kamış', that it has several meanings. The meaning you referred to as rude is not actually that rude but it's sexually oriented and is used by doctors and common people equally. Still though, not the kind of word to be used for that certain meaning in everyday talks but it's mostly used for its meaning as a plant type that wind instruments can be made.

Well, one way or the other you are learning Turkish guys and I think you're doing smartly! :D

Congratulations, c'est tres bonne mes amis!
Yildiz

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Re: Projection

Unread postby Javelin » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:34 pm

Hey thats not Turkish!

aster wrote:Congratulations, c'est tres bonne mes amis!
Yildiz


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