Number of Votes per Poll for the Challenges? Suggestions ?

A photo challenge starting January 5th 2009. One image only, normal size restrictions apply (1000 pixel maximum width or height recommended - if vertical we suggest 700 pixels maximum width). No followup images (comparisons) except by those who have not already posted their one image. Discussion welcome - please only repeat images in discussion posts if absolutely essential. Aster has been appointed moderator of this forum in recognition of her commitment to making it great fun. This does not prevent others from setting challenges!

Moderator: aster

Forum rules
One image only, normal size restrictions apply (1000 pixel maximum width or height recommended - if vertical we suggest 700 pixels maximum width). No followup images (comparisons) except by those who have not already posted their one image. Discussion welcome - please only repeat images in discussion posts if absolutely essential. Participants should provide basic camera data (body, lens, ISO, mode, exposure over-ride or WB settings), and details of raw processing and subsequent PP.
aster
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Re: Challenge #43: “Autumn; From Summer To ”- Voting ends No

Unread post by aster »

.

:D Well, first of all a tiny comment: "Life as we know on planet Earth has never been fair nor is it now. Every single second, there are people out there making decisions in your behalf just because they 'think' they have the rights to do so; or blaming/accusing you of things you never said or did; or manipulating your words or life in one way or an other behind your backs; or making subtle plans to ambush you; or working on conspiracies to steal your work or friends or money; or investing in pretencious friendships in case they could benefit from your earnings and triumphs in some way... We are surrounded by these people even when we go out buy our daily groceries or bread at the local baker's. People trade smiles for a little monetary gain or a position even in the simplest encounter between themselves. Humankind's history and present life on Earth are far too full with the 'unfair' relations, trade, business and war affairs and what-nots... Just turn on the TV for news releases at prime times and it's one great show on 'unfair' matters happening all around the world; if you asked people that were hit by the biggest hurricane and floods, they would say nature is unfair without doubt."


But the way challenges run at PhotoClubAlpha forums 'unfairness' is not the designated purpose; not at heart or practically. At least when I start one I know that the last thing I want is a good photo gone astray. But there is bound to be times when that's a possible fact. You know why? Because the number of quality photos submitted are increasing at Photo Club Alpha challenges every single day. The contributors matured in their photographical perceptions and are also taking much better photos than when I first joined the forum a couple of years ago.


Surprisingly, with the rule of 'one-vote-each-for-every-voter' for the challenges I started until now, the best photos found their way up the ladder quite naturally. Check the past challenges and you'll see this. The voters voted so smartly with their one vote that all fine entries showed up in the Final Polls. Left to its own course everything found its righful place.

There can be new amendments to the rules depending on the number of entries for a particular challenge with the forum software in mind.

Although it may seem unfair to some, what kept me from granting more than one vote each voter was that the extra votes could also be exploited to manipulate the natural course of the good things. People may not decide to cast the extra votes for the other best photos that may otherwise be left out of the competition but instead to actually push someone they don't like and his photo out of the race as well. The polls would not be a 'one-way-street' any more; some may be willing to use existing extra votes to benefit themselves by using them as negative votes.

That's why I've been asking everyone to make up their minds carefully for that single vote that they will use. We have no idea how the power of extra votes will be used; manipulation or a rightful choice that earns the place.

Thank you for the kind words Pako and Dusty. :D I have no trouble nor am in search of praise for setting up a challenge, because everyone in the forum can and I hope will do so. I've enjoyed some past challenges started by yourselves as well. It's open to everyone and we can have simultaneously-running challenges as well.

In one challenge which has bountiful of entries we can try allowing 2 or 3 votes to see how that will run its course. If we see no abuse of rights, then why not continue to do so? : )

It's all about, how people will use those extra votes; for the good or for discarding someone's work out of the race to benefit from the situation. These challenges are not promising any designated prizes but for some it still may hold some importance enough to hurt someone's righful position.

At the end of the day though, there'll be unjust things occurring one way or an other, be it the way I run the polls or not; something or a feeling of bad will filter through.

We're all trying to make things better here, that's what I'd like to believe...and hopefully no granted power will be used for ill effects or influence.

No escape though, there'll always be something missing; no system to date was perfect on Earth and we won't be first as members while running the challenges of Photo Club Alpha. : )

Thanks for all the feedback.

Yildiz
Last edited by aster on Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: A couple of skipped letters and the like...
Lonnie Utah
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Re: Challenge #43: “Autumn; From Summer To ”- Voting ends No

Unread post by Lonnie Utah »

aster wrote:.

Well, first of all a tiny comment: "Life as we know on planet Earth has never been fair nor is it now.
That statement right there is a cop out 100%.

Just because "the world is unfair" doesn't mean that we can't strive to make these as fair as possible. Please tell me how some one could manipulate the voting with the ability to select more than one option. It's not like they can cast 3 vote for the same photo.

There is an obviously a lack of understanding here about binary voting and ordinal choice voting.
aster
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Re: Challenge #43: “Autumn; From Summer To ”- Voting ends No

Unread post by aster »

Sorry, Lonnie.

I won't be 'told' what to do on this matter by you.

One vote per poll still and for reasons of responsibility. Until I'm assured there won't be abuse....

Lack of understanding? I don't think so. I've seen it happen in real life. People get carried away once they begin to believe that they can do it just because they can do it. And those were very important real life matters...

You cannot assure me. One vote per poll stays.

You can practice your theory in full force for a challenge you start and let's see what happens.
I've seen enough cheating lately to believe that humans will not act any differently on matters of art work, especially if their own works are among them.

I won't discuss the matter anymore either. No matter how you interpret my decisions and moves either... It's gone too long already.

Yildiz
Lonnie Utah
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Re: Challenge #43: “Autumn; From Summer To ”- Voting ends No

Unread post by Lonnie Utah »

Fine with me. I guess it's your little kingdom here and you are going to play dictator. Worst thing they ever did here was make this "Aster's photo challenge". If you need that kind of power trip, then have at it. :roll:

If somebody want to gain the system, all it takes is 1 post to facebook, google+, and any other type of social media like other forums, "Hey, go to this site and vote for my photo..." It's that easy, would you like to see a demonstration?? If somebody wanted to sabotage the voting all it takes is a few "critique" posts in the photo poll, "Nice but out of focus", "Poor composition", "Over saturated" . There are 1,000 ways to influence the voting in these things. I've seen it happen. So that takes me back to the premise, why vote at all???

Truth be told, most to the topics are hokey anyway, they run way to long and don't really challenge anyone because folks can use any old shot they have in their portfolio. That doesn't advance us as "artists". If you really wanted to make this a "challenge" then you would make difficult or more creative topics give folks 2-3 weeks max to submit something, let them only submit 1 shot and say that no previous shots can be entered. But that's not way you want. You want a "feel good" challenge where folks can post up whatever snapshot they have saved on their computer that may or may not fit the theme. Again, that does NOTHING to make people better at this craft...

Enjoy your little world aster, I won't be visiting again....
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Dusty
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Re: Challenge #43: “Autumn; From Summer To ”- Voting ends No

Unread post by Dusty »

Lonnie Utah wrote: Enjoy your little world aster, I won't be visiting again....
Don't let the door hit you in the rear end on the way out!

Dusty
An a700, an a550 and couple of a580s, plus even more lenses (Zeiss included!).
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pakodominguez
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Re: Challenge #43: “Autumn; From Summer To ”- Voting ends No

Unread post by pakodominguez »

Lonnie Utah wrote: Truth be told, most to the topics are hokey anyway, they run way to long and don't really challenge anyone because folks can use any old shot they have in their portfolio. That doesn't advance us as "artists". If you really wanted to make this a "challenge" then you would make difficult or more creative topics give folks 2-3 weeks max to submit something, let them only submit 1 shot and say that no previous shots can be entered...
Hi Lonnie,

I find quite interesting this recommendations, and I would love to see them integrated to the Challenge's Forum. I think also that it is a little of a shame that you tell us just now and in this circumstances, and not in a good "feedback" way...
Lonnie Utah wrote: I won't be visiting again....
I hope you'll re-consider your purpose, and you'll be back to the Challenge's Forum soon.

Regards
Pako
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Lonnie Utah
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Re: Challenge #43: “Autumn; From Summer To ”- Voting ends No

Unread post by Lonnie Utah »

pakodominguez wrote:I hope you'll re-consider your purpose, and you'll be back to the Challenge's Forum soon.
Eh. In all honesty when I first join here, I participated in a few of these. Then it was made a 1 person kingdom, and I stopped participating. I had forgotten why. Now I remember, and I'll just ignore this corner of the forum like I have for the past 18 months or so....
aster
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Number of Votes per Poll for the Challenges? Suggestions ?

Unread post by aster »

Hi everyone, : )

I did ask others to start a thread on how they wish the challenges to be voted but since all discussions were continued under the Challenge #43 "Autumn", I'm forced to start one myself to keep the other thread free of unrelated matters.

I'll try to move the messages on the subject, in the other thread over here and hopefully there'll be some healthy outcome from the suggestions.

You know you can even start a poll on how you want the voting handled as well. There are and there never have been any restrictions on who can start what kind of threads in the challenge section as long as it's all about the challenges.

This was made clear by the forum owner David Kilpatrick from the start. None of us likes c*ens*orshi*p here and everyone was invited to start any kind of challenge at any time they like, even if an other challenge is already in progress.

Please continue the discussion here.
Thanks.

Yildiz
aster
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Re: Number of Votes per Poll for the Challenges? Suggestions

Unread post by aster »

Done.

Hopefully all messages were merged into this thread nicely. Please use this thread to continue your discussions on voting possibilities and matters related to the process.

Please remember that if you want something proven, you've got the space and the means to demonstrate your theories in a challenge that you personally started.

*Everyone can start a challenge in the Photo Club Alpha challenge forum.
*Everyone can devise their set of rules for the challenges they started. This has been the case frm the beginning. The starter is the right-holder of all actions allowed to the contributors and can make changes to any of the requirements within their own challenges. (check the earliest challenges and you'll find out for yourselves)
*Instead of insulting others under different allegations and addressing them with adjectives they need not be bothered with, use your time to create a chance to prove your points: "Actions Speak Louder Than Words".

That's the only way to convince anyone that your idea actually works. Let time and others be the judge of the consequences...

Time is precious..

Thanks
Yildiz
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