Why did Sony introduce the NEX for P&S upgraders - not ...

[twm47099]

enthusiasts?

The reason I ask, is I was looking through some old camera brochures and noted that most companies (Minolta, Canon, and Nikon) in the past introduced new concept cameras at the enthusiast level.

For example 7000AF, 7xi, 600si, 7, dimage 7 (along with the 5), A1, KM 7D.
I don't recall the Canon DSLR models, but I don't recall that it was D-Rebel but a higher model, same with Nikon.

I figure that P&S upgraders (as opposed to photographers who also use P&S) aren't sure what they want except nicer pictures. Pros aren't going to replace their cameras with a new fad as soon as its introduced.

But enthusiasts are enthusiastic; they will jump at the opportunity to get a new piece of equipment, particularly one that has some unique features. They will also enthusiastically tell the world how good the new produce it and why it makes everything else obsolete.

Of course they are also the most critical, so releasing a new innovative model not aimed at their desires, can only have one effect -- lots of complaining about features that were left out, lack of IQ, etc. So I don't understand why a bright company like Sony would introduce a new class of cameras and target it at a lower level since enthusiasts are still going to buy it (neat & nifty new camera) and find and scream about all its shortcomings.???

What am I missing?
tom

[bfitzgerald]

You are not missing anything! This is just the way Sony have been for a while now..and it extends beyond NEX into DSLR land as well. A bunch of suits who seem to think only newbie users buy cameras at this price point.

IMO they're horribly wrong..and the NEX is going to have a hard time in the marketplace.

Most p&s users don't have a clue about larger sensors, DOF control or anything else much bar pressing the button on top of the camera. Enthusiasts are IMO driving the demand for these ILC type models. Ignore them at your peril.

[Javelin]

there are so few enthusiasts DSLRs are where they belong. the people that want the entry SLRs and NEX don;t care about any of the things you give as examples that they don;t know about. they just want better than they can get with a P&S.. they don't want a lesson

[pakodominguez]

there are so few enthusiasts DSLRs are where they belong. the people that want the entry SLRs and NEX don;t care about any of the things you give as examples that they don;t know about. they just want better than they can get with a P&S.. they don't want a lesson

Hi Javelin,
You are an active P&S shooter (well, more active than me at least...) and belong to the Sony non-alpha forum in DPR. What is your impression about the NEX cameras and system? How the people at the Sony forum are reacting?

The transcription of the launch event is clear: the target is 90% P&S upgraders and 10% DSRL owners looking for a smaler camera they (we) can have handy anytime. I understand the OP asking for more, I understand videographer-like people asking for more control -I think I will love to experiment doing video too. I just think that those people will have to wait for a.- a firmware upgrade or b.- next NEX

In the meanwhile, I'm looking foward getting a NEX5 + 16mm + E to A adapter and probably the fisheye (this one van wait a little...)

Regards

[Javelin]

R1 F717 and F828 owners have been waiting for this for a long time all those that didn't go the DSLR route and there are quite a few still are proably going to go this way. I haven't really been paying much attention but there was a lot of excitement over there when they first were anounced an R1 owner I know mentioned them to me and he's probably going to get the first ones available here

[twm47099]

R1 F717 and F828 owners have been waiting for this for a long time all those that didn't go the DSLR route and there are quite a few still are proably going to go this way. I haven't really been paying much attention but there was a lot of excitement over there when they first were anounced an R1 owner I know mentioned them to me and he's probably going to get the first ones available here

That's an interesting point. I'm not really looking for more at this time (at least until they can fit an EVF into a NEX, my near vision is so bad I can't use a LV screen). But I've been reading some of the comments on the other boards, and it seems the NEX is getting some negative press (even before its sold any) by some of those who were the most vocal proponents of the concept. But I do see a good number of new posters on the Sony alpha forum, who I assume are from the non-DSLR forum.

My perspective is the old days when a company would have released a 7 level with the bells and whistles along with a 5 that was more affordable.

Tom

[OneGuyKs]

Sony made the right choice!

Had Sony first released the camera that looked like Samsung NX10, they would have not received any attention from the media (just as Samsung is already forgotten camera). People would have called it just another "me too" product. Others would have said the size is too big/similar to a DSLR.

Have a look at the New York Times article on Nex-5

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/techn ... pogue.html

What is DAVID POGUE talking about? Small size!

Yes there are a few "enthusiast" who wanted a DSLR like mirrorless camera, but there are millions more who wanted p&s camera, small size, with big sensor.

No Sony camera has ever received this much media hype before. IR posted a FULL review (a very positive one) the day the camera were anounced. (but there is still no full review of A5xx after almost an year later on IR).

This is the camera (given the price, size, and media hype) that Walmart & Best Buy would put on shelves and it will sell real well.

Sony will sell more Nex-5 than all their DSLRs combined.

[Javelin]

Which is why I am glad Sony put the nex cameras in with the alpha department. it will malke alpha seem a lot bigger within sony that it was as DSLR's alone

[bfitzgerald]

there are so few enthusiasts DSLRs are where they belong. the people that want the entry SLRs and NEX don;t care about any of the things you give as examples that they don;t know about. they just want better than they can get with a P&S.. they don't want a lesson

Great in theory but we'll wait for the sales figures to turn up.
And do tell me where these "people" who wanted these basic/weak handling entry Sony DSLR's are..because they sold pretty poorly.

Hate to break news to you but unless people are "aware" of why they might want a larger sensor the pull points are entirely lost on them. That's why NEX is going to not be taken seriously by many..Sony yet again aim for the wrong user base.
They don't want a lesson? Do you ever actually talk to people outside..folks who use cameras just to capture memories and snaps etc. The vast majority of them don't have a clue about photography..in any way. Why would they want better than they get p&s..they don't know what better is!

[OneGuyKs]

there are so few enthusiasts DSLRs are where they belong. the people that want the entry SLRs and NEX don;t care about any of the things you give as examples that they don;t know about. they just want better than they can get with a P&S.. they don't want a lesson

Great in theory but we'll wait for the sales figures to turn up.
And do tell me where these "people" who wanted these basic/weak handling entry Sony DSLR's are..because they sold pretty poorly.

!

Sony DSLRs had a fatal flaw: no video.

Nex is in different league. It ticks all the right things for a Best Buy/Walmart buyer (stylish, sexy, small, video, AF with video, sweep panorama, good low-light, face & smile detection). No Sony DSLR (under A500) ticked any of these.

[bfitzgerald]

I won't suggest the lack of video in the A5xx range does not hurt sales..it obviously does.
However folks forget a few things here. How is your average p&s user who does not know anything about photography grasp why a NEX is better than a normal p&s..many of which have HD video nowadays?

They can work out that the "pro shooters" use DSLR's..but pro shooters don't use ILC's. In some ways the size is a pro and possibly a con too. On the other hand fairly well clued in DSLR users will know about why an ILC could be of use to them. And those users are likely to be a bit unimpressed with the limitations of the NEX in it's current form. Nothing wrong with doing an ILC, but Sony's mistake is to gear it to newbies at the expense of enthusiasts. In the same way it was a mistake to release cut down newbie ish DSLR's onto the market.

Adding video to their DSLR range will help but they won't stand a chance in the market until they work out that a DSLR user isn't a p&s one.

[OneGuyKs]

I won't suggest the lack of video in the A5xx range does not hurt sales..it obviously does.
However folks forget a few things here. How is your average p&s user who does not know anything about photography grasp why a NEX is better than a normal p&s..many of which have HD video nowadays?
.

Most do know bigger sensor better low-light. The salemen at the big consumer stores tell them that, as well, as friends, reviews (like that new york times article about nex-5 -- how many millions who read that article wouldn't still know bigger sensor better low-light?) The success of m 4/3 and how it took off within an year is a proof in iteself.

[OneGuyKs]

why an ILC could be of use to them. And those users are likely to be a bit unimpressed with the limitations of the NEX in it's current form. .

I disagree. Had Sony released NX10 size cameras with a lot of buttons and built-in EVF, it would have been a big flop. There is nothing that distinguishes that from tons of other ILC and entry-level DSLRs. There is no point in arguing back and forth. You made your point and I made mine. The sales will tell.

I believe Nex-5 will sell better than all Sony DSLRs combined.

[bfitzgerald]

Here we go again suggesting Sony avoid directly competing with "successful products"
Micro 4/3 has done pretty well..so why will NEX do better than that?
And yet the Canon rebel still sold far more than any ILC model on the market.

Which tells us?

I'll let you fill in the blanks..there is no going back and forth debate wise, if you honestly thing a NY times article is read by most p&s users in the world..that speaks for itself.

[OneGuyKs]

if you honestly thing a NY times article is read by most p&s users in the world..that speaks for itself.

(sarcasm on)
yes, all p&s camera buyers are stupid. They don't read newspaers, don't care about the small size, don't talk to friends, relatives, aren't into stylish sexy looking gadegts, they just want a huge camera that looks DSLR size with 50 buttons and behaves like it too
(sarcasm off)

I am done.

Bye bye,.